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Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Its a town and we do it right. No travel teams and yes we do get recruited to div 1 schools without paying a million dollars and running every day of our lives for lax. It is also a Magical experience when our boys play side by side all year round. It does happen and virtually for free and effortless.


My son has a kid from syosset on his travel team...

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There are Syosset kids on EVERY travel program at ALL ages.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question about the Syosset Summer Lax program - this does sound good so help out if you know the answers to any of these below questions because it is so rare that a town can successfully pull this off:
Does anyone know if the HS Summer Tournament teams are playing in the Elite division or B division?
Do individual players attend recruiting camps?
What is the cost per player for the summer tournament team?

It would be interesting to find out is the system makes the player or do a few key players make the system look good...


This is a middle school topic that was started, not high school. However....

Elite or B division-- depends on grade
Recruiting camps-- yes, as individuals, many do, representing Syosset
Costs for summer team-- Youth travel Spartans team - very reasonable fee

Many kids In Syosset at every age level play club travel in addition to PAL, school and town travel.

Players benefit the system and the system benefits the players.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question about the Syosset Summer Lax program - this does sound good so help out if you know the answers to any of these below questions because it is so rare that a town can successfully pull this off:
Does anyone know if the HS Summer Tournament teams are playing in the Elite division or B division?
Do individual players attend recruiting camps?
What is the cost per player for the summer tournament team?

It would be interesting to find out is the system makes the player or do a few key players make the system look good...


This is a middle school topic that was started, not high school. However....

Elite or B division-- depends on grade
Recruiting camps-- yes, as individuals, many do, representing Syosset
Costs for summer team-- Youth travel Spartans team - very reasonable fee

Many kids In Syosset at every age level play club travel in addition to PAL, school and town travel.

Players benefit the system and the system benefits the players.


Is the Syosset love in over yet? Done patting each other on the back?
BTW, exactly what elite tournaments have these AMAZING teams won? Have never seen or heard of them in any of the the tourneys that are of note. The players that make the difference on any of those teams are those who play club ball outside of the town system I am sure. It's how it is in most townie teams. They take credit for the hard work of the few who actually go an play LAX all year and benefit from that experience, just as the MS teams do now.
So back on topic; I do not feel that MS ball benefits the elite club player who has to play down in order to represent the school team. Put the pom-poms away until high school. That is where they all catch up and can enjoy the "school experience" as a unit. Until then, MS ball is a waste of time for the advanced player. Keep them on their club teams and keep them getting better. It pays off in the end.

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Unfortunately for some of us, we have to play middle school or face the consequences from the JV/Varsity coaches. Just the way it is.....

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But the questions also rolls over to high school and the high school coaches. I agree that if a player wants to improve and compete at a higher level they should play club ball, but what happens during the summer when the high school coaches put together school teams to compete in tournaments and your child can't committ to being there 100 percent of the time because of conflicts in tournaments. Our experience has been that the child that plays for a team outside of the school venue is "punished" for doing so. Their playing time with the high school team is reduced even though their skills are clearly more advanced they play second string. What should a player do? This type of behavior makes the player and the parent feel horrible. As a parent you watch all of their hardwork, the time and committment go down the tubes because the player sits on the sidelines because he chooses to play for a travel team during the summer.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
But the questions also rolls over to high school and the high school coaches. I agree that if a player wants to improve and compete at a higher level they should play club ball, but what happens during the summer when the high school coaches put together school teams to compete in tournaments and your child can't committ to being there 100 percent of the time because of conflicts in tournaments. Our experience has been that the child that plays for a team outside of the school venue is "punished" for doing so. Their playing time with the high school team is reduced even though their skills are clearly more advanced they play second string. What should a player do? This type of behavior makes the player and the parent feel horrible. As a parent you watch all of their hardwork, the time and committment go down the tubes because the player sits on the sidelines because he chooses to play for a travel team during the summer.
I don't know about boys lacrosse, but in girls lacrosse ( and I'm sure it's the same ) It almost does not matter what happens in the spring. Almost without exception, every college coach is trying to win there own games to worry about High School games, and M.S. games count even less. Being in the middle of the recruiting experience this year I can say without question school ball mattes very little unless you are in G.C. Manhasset, St. Anthony, Chaminade, W.I. , or Sacred Hart.
In my opinion to the original question, why would you not want your kid on the field as often as possible. Even if you kid has to "play down" ( by the way that sounds really elitist, what is your kid to good for everyone els) what he/she is showing is school/team spirit, and every coach on earth wants to see that.
In the summer If your son /daughter wants to play club over H.S. team ball then let them, despite any repercussions from the coach. In the end remember, colleges are not looking to recruit until summer, so if you kid plays second string not first, who cares the only one getting hurt is the H.S. coach, he looks foolish and petty for sitting talented players.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Unfortunately for some of us, we have to play middle school or face the consequences from the JV/Varsity coaches. Just the way it is.....


That is just unacceptable yet true and unfortunately, in spite of how i feel about MS ball, it will be the case for my son as well

The kids playing town ball have been told if they have any desire to play varsity, then they better play for the town summer team.

The hard part is that there will much resentment when the club team players come back to school ball and take the spots that the" town team only" team players thought they had locked up. It's already happening when our club players come back to play MS ball

Coaches will play the players who help the team win. Be they town or club players, yet the town parents have guzzled the Kool aide and believe their kids will be rewarded with varsity spots for staying with the town team only.

That will make for some interesting political banter when it doesn't happen.

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Not in our district my friend, but you are correct about your last name, it matters...... I guess you just have to be a member of "that good ole boy club" we aren't included. Our district doesn't play the best that is why they will never improve.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Unfortunately for some of us, we have to play middle school or face the consequences from the JV/Varsity coaches. Just the way it is.....


I am very confused, here we say the kids may get punished for not playing ms/hs summer ball, but dont you want your kids to gel well with each other and dont you want them to play togther as much as possible.


If your kid is that good he could help the boys become better are you so arrogant as to not want your kid doing that.

then you may say he is playing to much, bull, because if he was invited to play with an elite all star team right after he just played with his AAA team you'd be all in, but ill play along how much is too much for a 13 - 16 yo.

I say you try and work out both. I have been around long enough to see players switching shirts on the sidelines to head out from their club win to play for their town (two fields over).

I have seen youth players be affiliated with 2 club teams and do the same thing.

why not have your cake and eat it too.



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Most try to do both, but some times it isn't possible especially when your not at the same location. Trust me, my child doesn't think he is better than anyone else, but he is made to feel like he isn't part of a school team because he chooses to play club ball, that is what we are talking about!!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Most try to do both, but some times it isn't possible especially when your not at the same location. Trust me, my child doesn't think he is better than anyone else, but he is made to feel like he isn't part of a school team because he chooses to play club ball, that is what we are talking about!!!
My daughter is made to feel the same way, so I understand what your saying. My advice to my daughter is to do what will get you closer to her goal, and do your best to shrug off the nasty comments she receives at school. Though it's hard for a 12-17 year old to understand, Middle and High School will come to an end and it's more important to do the thing that will further there aspirations, than to cave into peer pressure, or pressure from a coach that knows his role in the recruiting process is going the way of the dinosaur. Stay strong for your kid, guide them to do the right thing for them, not the easy one

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What do you do when the HS coach tells 7&8th graders that if they want to play in HS they should play for "their" club team in the summer?

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play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I don't think the St Anthony's or Chaminade superintendent (or equivalent) will ever do anything to stop the pressure (overt or covert) that those coaches use to force boys to play Express. Its still very wrong for those coaches to do both.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I dunno, from what I've read here and seen in Newsday and rankings, some schools are highly ranked and I'd think that does matter for recruiting. But then again, could it be that those ranked schools are those running the top notch summer programs? It seems Smithown West does, WI, St. A's. I'm just guessing, I'm in a small district and thankfully haven't had to make this choice.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I don't think the St Anthony's or Chaminade superintendent (or equivalent) will ever do anything to stop the pressure (overt or covert) that those coaches use to force boys to play Express. Its still very wrong for those coaches to do both.

there is a big difference between public and private school with regard to conflict of interest, when you sign on for chaminade or st. a it all comes with the territory - no one is holding a gun to your head, you don't like it you leave. public school conflict of interest is another story and the fact that they're paid with tax payer funds and then find the need to manipulate thier students for extra money is disgusting

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Maybe HS ball doesnt matter in your town, come down to GC or Manhasset for that matter and you will see a different side of this argument.

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Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.


GC now guilty of attempting to do so

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.


Is Garden City #1 in the country?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.


Not the other posters point (I believe)

someone mentioned HS doesn't matter. I think many (GC, Manhasset) and many others would disagree. Many do play outside the town for club teams, however the town is still very strong as these players contribute to both. If you are in a good district/with a good program, HS matters very much, and the benefits of finding a way to contribute can be realized in middle school with support from the top down. Some are fortunate in that players can do both with appreciation of the best end result.

All players/families find there place- town only, town/HS and club, club "#" and private HS. You have to be able to assess your own situation and do what is best. Not to say it is easy or always available.

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I would be surpised if they are in the top five this year.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I don't think the St Anthony's or Chaminade superintendent (or equivalent) will ever do anything to stop the pressure (overt or covert) that those coaches use to force boys to play Express. Its still very wrong for those coaches to do both.

there is a big difference between public and private school with regard to conflict of interest, when you sign on for chaminade or st. a it all comes with the territory - no one is holding a gun to your head, you don't like it you leave. public school conflict of interest is another story and the fact that they're paid with tax payer funds and then find the need to manipulate thier students for extra money is disgusting


I disagree strongly. It makes no difference how the school is funded - either taxes or tuition. The conflict of interest is exactly the same. It shouldn't "come with the territory" no matter how the school is funded. There are some brave souls who play for St. Anthonys or Chaminade and also for fl$ and other clubs not called Express. Good for them for not caving into the pressure. But the pressure from St. A's or Chaminade shouldn't exist in the first place. The powers that be at St. A's and Chaminade should stop this - but they won't.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would be surpised if they are in the top five this year.


get ready to be surprised and impressed....sorry...just the way it is. no need to argue that point

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Anyone who doesn't believe that HS ball matters to these kids needs to come down to the Woodstick Classic. I believe its in Manhasset this year, maybe Cage can confirm.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Anyone who doesn't believe that HS ball matters to these kids needs to come down to the Woodstick Classic. I believe its in Manhasset this year, maybe Cage can confirm.
The 123rd Edition of the Woodstick Classic will be played on April 27th with the faceoff planned for 7:00pm. This year's Classic will be held at Manhasset High School. Circle this non-league match for your Saturday night date!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Maybe HS ball doesnt matter in your town, come down to GC or Manhasset for that matter and you will see a different side of this argument.
If your going to jump in the middle of a conversation, at least go back and read the beginning statement. G.C. Manhasset, St.Anthony, W.I. were all originally singled out as the few H.S. teams that still matter because almost every coach pays attention to the teams with such a rich history in the game. Sachem, E.S.M., S.W.R. levittown , E.I. ect... not so much

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Anyone who doesn't believe that HS ball matters to these kids needs to come down to the Woodstick Classic. I believe its in Manhasset this year, maybe Cage can confirm.

The issue on both the boys and girls side is the coaches leveraging there position as teachers/coaches with the students via pay for play summer teams and camps and it shouldn't be allowed, it starts as young as 10 years old - kids are told they have to play for a particular summer team or else...

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The recent success of Garden City is interesting, because it highlights the benefits of both middle school and club teams, and I think pretty much disproves the theory that your "elite" kid shouldn't play for the middle school program. Allow me to elaborate ...

The classes of 2011 and 2012 in Garden City had the benefit of a couple of dads starting their own club team, called the Sharks. I believe this was sometime in 2005 or 2006. The Sharks were loosely affiliated with Gordon Purdie's Checkmate program at Adelphi (which is in GC). At least initially, the boys who played for the Sharks were told they could NOT play for GC Middle School in the spring. This allowed for more boys to play lax for GCMS starting in 7th grade, because many of the "studs" were already playing for the Sharks.

You now had a situation where a LOT of boys were playing a lot of lax for very good coaches. The Sharks were dominant. The stuff of legend really. But the GCMS team was still quite good, and some of those GCMS-only players became very, very good players for the High School.

At some point the Sharks relented and removed the "you can't play for the middle school" rule, and there was some back and forth, especially in the summer. It became a little weird when some of the GC school coaches started appearing as Sharks coaches (at least in print), and I can only assume that this indicates there were no hard feelings on the part of the GC school coaches.

The rest is history. GC being #1 in the country is the direct result of two competing programs, GCMS and the Sharks, producing a lot of great lax players, who then combined in High School to create a dominant team, deep with talent.

What remains to be seen is whether this success will continue, since I believe all the original Sharks players have now graduated.

On another note: I don't want to add to the "Syosset lovefest", but they appear to be on the same path -- a strong travel "club" team for boys who live in the town, plus what I assume is a good middle school program, with at least some cooperation among the two groups.

But hey, what do I know!




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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The recent success of Garden City is interesting, because it highlights the benefits of both middle school and club teams, and I think pretty much disproves the theory that your "elite" kid shouldn't play for the middle school program. Allow me to elaborate ...

The classes of 2011 and 2012 in Garden City had the benefit of a couple of dads starting their own club team, called the Sharks. I believe this was sometime in 2005 or 2006. The Sharks were loosely affiliated with Gordon Purdie's Checkmate program at Adelphi (which is in GC). At least initially, the boys who played for the Sharks were told they could NOT play for GC Middle School in the spring. This allowed for more boys to play lax for GCMS starting in 7th grade, because many of the "studs" were already playing for the Sharks.

You now had a situation where a LOT of boys were playing a lot of lax for very good coaches. The Sharks were dominant. The stuff of legend really. But the GCMS team was still quite good, and some of those GCMS-only players became very, very good players for the High School.

At some point the Sharks relented and removed the "you can't play for the middle school" rule, and there was some back and forth, especially in the summer. It became a little weird when some of the GC school coaches started appearing as Sharks coaches (at least in print), and I can only assume that this indicates there were no hard feelings on the part of the GC school coaches.

The rest is history. GC being #1 in the country is the direct result of two competing programs, GCMS and the Sharks, producing a lot of great lax players, who then combined in High School to create a dominant team, deep with talent.

What remains to be seen is whether this success will continue, since I believe all the original Sharks players have now graduated.

On another note: I don't want to add to the "Syosset lovefest", but they appear to be on the same path -- a strong travel "club" team for boys who live in the town, plus what I assume is a good middle school program, with at least some cooperation among the two groups.

But hey, what do I know!


Not to be a d%&* but the term "stuff of legends" really does not apply to mid school travel team under any circumstances

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Yes very similiar to what is happening in Syosset. A few years back some dads started the Spartans for a select group of MS boys (current 2016 or 2015 I believe) and since than it has been expanding to include grades 3-8. As far a Syosset having a good middle school program, I would disgaree. District has two middle schools so it splits the better players up. So except for a few very good 8th graders who will be moved up to JV, the MS program is basically developmental. The better Syosset MS players while still playing MS ball will play Spartans and are also free to play club (they set up Spartans so the 2 schedules do not conflict). I am not there yet with my MS son so I cannot comment on "pressure" to play on HS summer team.

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Um, those GCMS-Sharks boys ended up at Harvard, Yale, Penn, Colgate, Maryland, Amherst and Penn State ... etc. etc. I believe they had 3 HS All-Americans (maybe more). I'm not sure they ever lost a game, although they must have at some point over the middle school years into early high school.

This started back in 2005-06. You know, before the club team explosion and before you were paying attention.

Go ask MC if he remembers that team!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Um, those GCMS-Sharks boys ended up at Harvard, Yale, Penn, Colgate, Maryland, Amherst and Penn State ... etc. etc. I believe they had 3 HS All-Americans (maybe more). I'm not sure they ever lost a game, although they must have at some point over the middle school years into early high school.

This started back in 2005-06. You know, before the club team explosion and before you were paying attention.

Go ask MC if he remembers that team!


okay, go to any lacrosse venue today and ask" hey, remember that that 2005 Shark Team from Long Island" and see how many people know about it. When your the "stuff of legends " your remembered by the average player in your sport

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The recent success of GC ? Where have you been or are you a Lax expert or critic because your kids play now.

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The Sharks actually had six All Americans at the same time:

Dwyer
Jahelka
Mahon
Fisher
Berkery
Marino

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"The recent success of GC ? Where have you been or are you a Lax expert or critic because your kids play now."

I'm only referring to the last two years as "recent". GC is always good, but #1 national rankings are rare. And there's a reason the last two classes were so dominant.

And if I know what was happening in 2005, I've been around longer than most here, and likely much longer than you.

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Please explain.

Did the boys listed above not play for their local JHS Team and instead play and train with a "club team" or did they play club in addition to their JHS team?


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2005 ? Wow. What about 95 and 85 and 75 and 65. You must be real old. This whole national ranking thing is a gimmick. Any given Sunday for example. Not that I'm questioning their lacrosse dominance and breeding they've been producing for decades. Theyre youth football teams stop in 6th grade and they play for the MS. By the way how's their football team ?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
"The recent success of GC ? Where have you been or are you a Lax expert or critic because your kids play now."

I'm only referring to the last two years as "recent". GC is always good, but #1 national rankings are rare. And there's a reason the last two classes were so dominant.

And if I know what was happening in 2005, I've been around longer than most here, and likely much longer than you.

National rankings mean absolutely nothing when it comes to HS teams and very little when it comes to players. How much time, effort and resources do you think goes into something like ranking HS teams? The answer is very, very little

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