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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Soccer and hockey have it...why cant lacrosse start..ID cards. Sept 1-Aug 31...only fair way to do this. Start in 4-5 grade on down. cant enforce it with older grades that have established team already. I would love to see it enforced from 8th grade down....Just wait till one boy gets really hurt because of a grade based tournament. I mean really really hurt..Parents will then be on board. Why does a boy have to get hurt really bad before we change this rule. Its about growing the game and getting more kids involved...Not championships for 4-8th grades and T shirts


"established teams" - every team has enough turnover that even that excuse isn't cutting it (and let's be honest, that is the lamest reason to not take every level up through MS'ers to age based).

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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No one is getting hurt. There have been thousands of games played over the last several years and No one got really hurt. Even if they were, nothing will change. Best bet is to just keep your kid in PAL until HS, then the worry is over. Sorry to be the truth teller but that’s it.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one is getting hurt. There have been thousands of games played over the last several years and No one got really hurt. Even if they were, nothing will change. Best bet is to just keep your kid in PAL until HS, then the worry is over. Sorry to be the truth teller but that’s it.


Yup - you keep testing the law of numbers - increasing holdback problem with increasing numbers of players. It's not a question of "if - it's a question of" when"! And all you need is one along with the resulting lawsuit.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Soccer and hockey have it...why cant lacrosse start..ID cards. Sept 1-Aug 31...only fair way to do this. Start in 4-5 grade on down. cant enforce it with older grades that have established team already. I would love to see it enforced from 8th grade down....Just wait till one boy gets really hurt because of a grade based tournament. I mean really really hurt..Parents will then be on board. Why does a boy have to get hurt really bad before we change this rule. Its about growing the game and getting more kids involved...Not championships for 4-8th grades and T shirts


Everyone's main argument is about the supposed safety/insurance issue once a young kid is injured by a holdback. But after thousands of games, it hasn't happened. Or at least no parent of an injured kid has made enough noise or lawsuits about it to impact anything.

Give it up. As long as the major clubs using and encouraging holdbacks are in charge (which they are), it won't change. They have the best teams, run the tournaments, do camps, get the most kids at tryouts, generate recruits, get the publicity, have strong college connections, and so on.

You think they want a level playing field? You think they will change out of doing what's right? You think they fear some hollow US Lacrosse insurance issue?

Holdbacks thrive in lacrosse, not in life.

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
the topic started with the simple "Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!"

I would like to answer that

The Good - any kid that can use anything to his advantage to get into the best college he can get into.

The Bad - parents, kids or coaches that do it for any reason other than getting into a great academic college

The Ugly - People that anonymously expresses their opinion about how another person should raise his kids.




What's really ugly is that you and your kid are both cheating weasels

Totally agree!


College coaches don't care so it will never happen.

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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2025 Chan put 2 2024's on his team and ran team thru the 2 boys. Sad Sad days.

If the Director of a Major club is doing it and rubbing it in all our faces then its never going to change.
The 2025 thread is littered with upset parents.

These people answer to no one in youth Lacrosse. They run the clubs, tournaments, showcases, and High School LAX.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.


Fall ball has nothing to do with it. I was talking about the rule interpretation. LE on age parents were talking about a bunch of boys. They thought their sons had a fair chance at playing time. Not even close when they found out their kid was competing against 15 year olds. Not just the Pingry students...what about the seton hall kid and the others arriving in the spring. This is a bastardized version of hold back. Maryland doesn’t even sink that low. I hope it’s worth it. Wins against kids 2 years younger will not get you anywhere.

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pull down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.


Fall ball has nothing to do with it. I was talking about the rule interpretation. LE on age parents were talking about a bunch of boys. They thought their sons had a fair chance at playing time. Not even close when they found out their kid was competing against 15 year olds. Not just the Pingry students...what about the seton hall kid and the others arriving in the spring. This is a bastardized version of hold back. Maryland doesn’t even sink that low. I hope it’s worth it. Wins against kids 2 years younger will not get you anywhere.


The on age parents should go back to the clubs they left or find another team. NJ is low on top-level talent and most of the clubs will take the players back at a major discount just to show the 23s and 24s LE is not what they think.

Only way LE changes is when the cash stops coming in.

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pull down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.


Fall ball has nothing to do with it. I was talking about the rule interpretation. LE on age parents were talking about a bunch of boys. They thought their sons had a fair chance at playing time. Not even close when they found out their kid was competing against 15 year olds. Not just the Pingry students...what about the seton hall kid and the others arriving in the spring. This is a bastardized version of hold back. Maryland doesn’t even sink that low. I hope it’s worth it. Wins against kids 2 years younger will not get you anywhere.


The on age parents should go back to the clubs they left or find another team. NJ is low on top-level talent and most of the clubs will take the players back at a major discount just to show the 23s and 24s LE is not what they think.

Only way LE changes is when the cash stops coming in.


If a team is winning, most won't leave.

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No doubt LE is better. But from their whole pool of players they only achieved progress by pulling players down 2 years while currently enrolled in high school. That’s horrendous and would not be tolerated in other sports. The parents of those kids are a joke. They have zero confidence in their son’s ability to perform on age. Says a lot. Weak parents, weak kids and a weak program.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
No doubt LE is better. But from their whole pool of players they only achieved progress by pulling players down 2 years while currently enrolled in high school. That’s horrendous and would not be tolerated in other sports. The parents of those kids are a joke. They have zero confidence in their son’s ability to perform on age. Says a lot. Weak parents, weak kids and a weak program.

If a kid is in 8th grade but is going to reclass next year does he play as a 22 or 23 this summer

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No doubt LE is better. But from their whole pool of players they only achieved progress by pulling players down 2 years while currently enrolled in high school. That’s horrendous and would not be tolerated in other sports. The parents of those kids are a joke. They have zero confidence in their son’s ability to perform on age. Says a lot. Weak parents, weak kids and a weak program.

If a kid is in 8th grade but is going to reclass next year does he play as a 22 or 23 this summer


He would be on the LE 2024 team..

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No doubt LE is better. But from their whole pool of players they only achieved progress by pulling players down 2 years while currently enrolled in high school. That’s horrendous and would not be tolerated in other sports. The parents of those kids are a joke. They have zero confidence in their son’s ability to perform on age. Says a lot. Weak parents, weak kids and a weak program.

If a kid is in 8th grade but is going to reclass next year does he play as a 22 or 23 this summer


23, because nobody will challege it and the tourney director's won't enforce it. So might as well

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Hey, if you can identify as a different gender, and now I even heard of someone who is identifying as a different race, why not identify as a different grade?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
If a kid is in 8th grade but is going to reclass next year does he play as a 22 or 23 this summer


Depends if he wants to actually get better or just look better (at least for awhile)...

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Leading Edge has taken this to a whole new level.
They now interpret the rule as:
2022 is the graduating year and if you intend to graduate in 2022 then you can play with the 2022 team. Meaning "high school freshman are now playing against 8th graders." They have at least 5 freshman on the team, according to the LE parents talking at NLF this past weekend. It sounded like the on age parents had no clue this was going on until they got to the first practice, Ridiculous....

Where did you get this info. If true wow


Frist, off its Fall ball. Are you sure it wasn't "our 22 Goalie couldn't make it so we had to pulled down a 21 so we could play?" Most clubs would pull up their 23. Yes, they have 10 to 12 holdbacks.. the "freshman" holdback could be at Pingry taking 8th/9th classes but technically be in the 8th grade.
Regardless Leading Edge is now 91 so it should get cleaned up. Unless 91 lets it continue.


Fall ball has nothing to do with it. I was talking about the rule interpretation. LE on age parents were talking about a bunch of boys. They thought their sons had a fair chance at playing time. Not even close when they found out their kid was competing against 15 year olds. Not just the Pingry students...what about the seton hall kid and the others arriving in the spring. This is a bastardized version of hold back. Maryland doesn’t even sink that low. I hope it’s worth it. Wins against kids 2 years younger will not get you anywhere.


The whole "I intendd to repeat a grade" or, even better, "I intend to do a PG year" LATER, so I can down NOW is not new - we were posting about this here on BOTC last year or maybe even the year prior. Age-based play can't happen soon enough!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Soccer and hockey have it...why cant lacrosse start..ID cards. Sept 1-Aug 31...only fair way to do this. Start in 4-5 grade on down. cant enforce it with older grades that have established team already. I would love to see it enforced from 8th grade down....Just wait till one boy gets really hurt because of a grade based tournament. I mean really really hurt..Parents will then be on board. Why does a boy have to get hurt really bad before we change this rule. Its about growing the game and getting more kids involved...Not championships for 4-8th grades and T shirts


Everyone's main argument is about the supposed safety/insurance issue once a young kid is injured by a holdback. But after thousands of games, it hasn't happened. Or at least no parent of an injured kid has made enough noise or lawsuits about it to impact anything.

Give it up. As long as the major clubs using and encouraging holdbacks are in charge (which they are), it won't change. They have the best teams, run the tournaments, do camps, get the most kids at tryouts, generate recruits, get the publicity, have strong college connections, and so on.

You think they want a level playing field? You think they will change out of doing what's right? You think they fear some hollow US Lacrosse insurance issue?

Holdbacks thrive in lacrosse, not in life.


I'm sure soccer and hockey folks said the same thing - good thing no one listened to those people pushing the status quo thing!

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Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.



What a sad state lacrosse has become.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.


Thank you for sharing. Nothing we don't know but everything rarely summarized so cleanly. College sports such a business now. Inflated rosters hurt more then help. Difficult to use more than get used. Compete against your teammates more than opponents.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.


Thank you for sharing. Nothing we don't know but everything rarely summarized so cleanly. College sports such a business now. Inflated rosters hurt more then help. Difficult to use more than get used. Compete against your teammates more than opponents.


Great post. I have a college Junior who hates Lacrosse and would love to quit. My son is a hard worker and starter on the team. It is even worse for the othe boys who don’t even have a shot of seeing the field and are getting very little money. All the coaches are nasty bastards, they are not at all what you see at the recruiting visits. They are unreasonable with their expectations. We have encouraged him to stick it out, although he insists that Lacrosse is ruining his like. The one good thing is the friendships he has made, they will have that bond forever.

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I am sure this is all true. But a key question is, is he going to a better college than he otherwise would have? For me, who is fully expecting to pay full freight for my non sports playing other child, or full ride if my son can go Ivy or top DIII, that is a big reason to play beyond the love of the game, friendships, etc...

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Very sad, but true. I’m hearing a lot of these types of stories these days.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I am sure this is all true. But a key question is, is he going to a better college than he otherwise would have? For me, who is fully expecting to pay full freight for my non sports playing other child, or full ride if my son can go Ivy or top DIII, that is a big reason to play beyond the love of the game, friendships, etc...


From "Just for your info.." I agree that lax might be able to get your children into better schools than they otherwise would be able to without lax. However, all the coaches my son talked to asked about his grades. In my case, he was a walk-on. He got into the school on his own (without lacrosse) and it was his dream school. We always told him to apply the 'break a leg test' - would you be happy if you couldn't play lacrosse. The 2017 HS class was one of the worst in terms of early recruiting and he didn't peak until his junior and senior year at which point there were very few, if any, spots available (with or without scholarships). Luckily he's good enough that he will probably get some playing time either as a freshman or sophomore, if he continues with it. I have another son and he will probably take a completely different track. Good luck to all.

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Sorry the hold back issue will never seem right to me. Whether it is in NY when a DOB before December holds back. Call me old school. You just didnt want your son to be the youngest kid, and you could have changed his stripes by making him one of the oldest knowing that would give him advantages.

Watching the NCAA football it is ridiculous when they say true freshman when they are 20 years old!!!! As sad as having 16 year old freshman. No freshman should be 16 right now, but there are. No Soph should be 17 but there are

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry the hold back issue will never seem right to me. Whether it is in NY when a DOB before December holds back. Call me old school. You just didnt want your son to be the youngest kid, and you could have changed his stripes by making him one of the oldest knowing that would give him advantages.

Watching the NCAA football it is ridiculous when they say true freshman when they are 20 years old!!!! As sad as having 16 year old freshman. No freshman should be 16 right now, but there are. No Soph should be 17 but there are


There are plenty of 16 year old freshman now. Crazy how one of the main reason for lacrosse going grade base was early recruiting of 9th graders. NCAA did right thing and made 11th grade the first year to talk with and recruit players last May. Even NCAA stopping ER hasnt slowed down the holdback mess at youth lacrosse or grade base at youth lacrosse.
Clearly an advantage at youth level and to some extant at HS level. Hopefully Youth will at least go back to age one day...but even that I am not sure of with so many clubs encouraging and having holdbacks.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry the hold back issue will never seem right to me. Whether it is in NY when a DOB before December holds back. Call me old school. You just didnt want your son to be the youngest kid, and you could have changed his stripes by making him one of the oldest knowing that would give him advantages.

Watching the NCAA football it is ridiculous when they say true freshman when they are 20 years old!!!! As sad as having 16 year old freshman. No freshman should be 16 right now, but there are. No Soph should be 17 but there are


There are plenty of 16 year old freshman now. Crazy how one of the main reason for lacrosse going grade base was early recruiting of 9th graders. NCAA did right thing and made 11th grade the first year to talk with and recruit players last May. Even NCAA stopping ER hasnt slowed down the holdback mess at youth lacrosse or grade base at youth lacrosse.
Clearly an advantage at youth level and to some extant at HS level. Hopefully Youth will at least go back to age one day...but even that I am not sure of with so many clubs encouraging and having holdbacks.


It’s too soon to say that he new NCAA rule about junior year recruiting has had no impact - it was just implemented,. I've read that recruiting tourneys/showcases where 2020s and 2021s are in attendance have seen little (or greatly lessened) obvious interest by college coaches towards those grades. We'll see see over the next few years whether the rule change has any impacts on the hold back aspect, but any impact there was always going to take some time, if at all.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry the hold back issue will never seem right to me. Whether it is in NY when a DOB before December holds back. Call me old school. You just didnt want your son to be the youngest kid, and you could have changed his stripes by making him one of the oldest knowing that would give him advantages.

Watching the NCAA football it is ridiculous when they say true freshman when they are 20 years old!!!! As sad as having 16 year old freshman. No freshman should be 16 right now, but there are. No Soph should be 17 but there are


There are plenty of 16 year old freshman now. Crazy how one of the main reason for lacrosse going grade base was early recruiting of 9th graders. NCAA did right thing and made 11th grade the first year to talk with and recruit players last May. Even NCAA stopping ER hasnt slowed down the holdback mess at youth lacrosse or grade base at youth lacrosse.
Clearly an advantage at youth level and to some extant at HS level. Hopefully Youth will at least go back to age one day...but even that I am not sure of with so many clubs encouraging and having holdbacks.


It’s too soon to say that he new NCAA rule about junior year recruiting has had no impact - it was just implemented,. I've read that recruiting tourneys/showcases where 2020s and 2021s are in attendance have seen little (or greatly lessened) obvious interest by college coaches towards those grades. We'll see see over the next few years whether the rule change has any impacts on the hold back aspect, but any impact there was always going to take some time, if at all.


We can only hope some sanity comes back to Youth lacrosse. This crop of players in last few years is very much all about holdbacks. Many of better clubs in holdback areas are littered with them. Even teams from Fl, TX , NC and GA have them now. Hard to blame them. They want to compete at highest level too, Especially hard 6-9th grade, when you go against a team of kids one -two years into their puberty and growth and your team is just starting. Difference in Size is noticeable.

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The rule change has been great for on age kids and late bloomers. Unfortunately, reclassifying your kid for lacrosse worked before the rule change. 16 year olds look better when the play against 14 year olds. There is no getting around it. Fortunately, the powers that be realized that verbally committing a kid to a school before he even set foot on a high school field was ridiculous and adjusted accordingly. I don't think you are really going to see the effect of the rule change until you get to the 2021s and 2022s. Most schools have the majority of their 19s squared away and are now focused on 20s. 21s will be the first class that will finish their Sophomore year without any kids being verbally committed. Its a good thing for the kids and the sport. Moving to age based youth lacrosse is the next step in leveling the playing field....

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Why do u think the rule change would stop parents from reclassifying their kids? I don’t see that making any difference. These parents need any advantage they can get for their son and playing against kids two years younger is the way to get it. Sad but they don’t seem to care

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.


Thank you for sharing. Nothing we don't know but everything rarely summarized so cleanly. College sports such a business now. Inflated rosters hurt more then help. Difficult to use more than get used. Compete against your teammates more than opponents.


Great post. I have a college Junior who hates Lacrosse and would love to quit. My son is a hard worker and starter on the team. It is even worse for the othe boys who don’t even have a shot of seeing the field and are getting very little money. All the coaches are nasty bastards, they are not at all what you see at the recruiting visits. They are unreasonable with their expectations. We have encouraged him to stick it out, although he insists that Lacrosse is ruining his like. The one good thing is the friendships he has made, they will have that bond forever.


Its tough now, but once he is done, he will look at it a lot differently. There is so much to be said about the perseverance it takes to complete 4 years of college athletics. I used to hate getting up and practicing on frozen grass at 6am in February and March. It felt like the worst job ever at times, but we pushed through it for our teammates. If they are going through it, we cant stay in bed with a clean conscience. When I have to do things I hate doing for my job or any other aspect of my life, I always remember dragging myself out of bed at 5am, breaking into a sweat in 15 degree weather, then standing and listening to our coaches talk while freezing our [ChillLaxin]es off for the remainder of practice. Everything else seems easy compared to that stuff. Wasn't overly excited about it back then, but would not trade the experience for anything now. Once every man gets to the age where they can no longer compete at that level, your appreciation of the adversity you pushed through increases 10 fold. Then you try to help your kids understand how important that commitment and work is later in life.

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Parents may continue to hold their kids back - but the advantage of playing against kids who haven't gone through puberty will be significantly diminished by their Jr. year.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.


Thank you for sharing. Nothing we don't know but everything rarely summarized so cleanly. College sports such a business now. Inflated rosters hurt more then help. Difficult to use more than get used. Compete against your teammates more than opponents.


Great post. I have a college Junior who hates Lacrosse and would love to quit. My son is a hard worker and starter on the team. It is even worse for the othe boys who don’t even have a shot of seeing the field and are getting very little money. All the coaches are nasty bastards, they are not at all what you see at the recruiting visits. They are unreasonable with their expectations. We have encouraged him to stick it out, although he insists that Lacrosse is ruining his like. The one good thing is the friendships he has made, they will have that bond forever.


Its tough now, but once he is done, he will look at it a lot differently. There is so much to be said about the perseverance it takes to complete 4 years of college athletics. I used to hate getting up and practicing on frozen grass at 6am in February and March. It felt like the worst job ever at times, but we pushed through it for our teammates. If they are going through it, we cant stay in bed with a clean conscience. When I have to do things I hate doing for my job or any other aspect of my life, I always remember dragging myself out of bed at 5am, breaking into a sweat in 15 degree weather, then standing and listening to our coaches talk while freezing our [ChillLaxin]es off for the remainder of practice. Everything else seems easy compared to that stuff. Wasn't overly excited about it back then, but would not trade the experience for anything now. Once every man gets to the age where they can no longer compete at that level, your appreciation of the adversity you pushed through increases 10 fold. Then you try to help your kids understand how important that commitment and work is later in life.


I agree - I didn't play lax in college but played football. Kind of the opposite [ChillLaxin] - 135° on the astroturf for the first few weeks of practice, and cold and snowy practices and playoffs games at the end of the season, and 6+ days a week for the better part of 4 months. You definitely have a better appreciation of what you were willing to go through then when you are looking back. And for those that haven't experienced it, it's hard to begin to appreciate the time, effort and the competitiveness that is involved - it's a huge jump up from HS, even from a large program.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Parents may continue to hold their kids back - but the advantage of playing against kids who haven't gone through puberty will be significantly diminished by their Jr. year.


I agree that you are in essence correct, however, it will take 10 years for people to figure that out.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Parents may continue to hold their kids back - but the advantage of playing against kids who haven't gone through puberty will be significantly diminished by their Jr. year.


I agree that you are in essence correct, however, it will take 10 years for people to figure that out.

I think that the early recruiting being behind us, it give less of an advantage to the holdbacks and reclass kids.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Parents may continue to hold their kids back - but the advantage of playing against kids who haven't gone through puberty will be significantly diminished by their Jr. year.


I agree that you are in essence correct, however, it will take 10 years for people to figure that out.

I think that the early recruiting being behind us, it give less of an advantage to the holdbacks and reclass kids.


While I agree as it relates to recruiting. It still is an advantage at youth level, And in Maryland with all the private school kids held back. It will be hard to get the clubs to change. Top clubs are associated with MIAA schools in some ways. In MD that is where the best lacrosse players want to end up...In the MIAA . Rest of the country may not be as unique with holdbacks like MD..so I guess there is hope.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Parents may continue to hold their kids back - but the advantage of playing against kids who haven't gone through puberty will be significantly diminished by their Jr. year.


I agree that you are in essence correct, however, it will take 10 years for people to figure that out.

I think that the early recruiting being behind us, it give less of an advantage to the holdbacks and reclass kids.


While I agree as it relates to recruiting. It still is an advantage at youth level, And in Maryland with all the private school kids held back. It will be hard to get the clubs to change. Top clubs are associated with MIAA schools in some ways. In MD that is where the best lacrosse players want to end up...In the MIAA . Rest of the country may not be as unique with holdbacks like MD..so I guess there is hope.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just for your information... my son is back from school and we are enjoying our thanksgiving vacation together. He plays on a top 20 DI college team and he tells me that out of a class of 17 Freshman, he is the only freshman who is 18 years old (on age for his grade). He is generally a year younger than every other Freshman on the team.

Some were held back when they were very young. Some were held back in 8th grade and some took a PG year or decided to wait a year between high school and college because of the availability of scholarship money.

To his knowledge no one is getting a full ride. Most are getting 25% scholarships or just $10k or $15k and many will not be receiving them next year. Receipt will depend upon their performance.

Know that each family has to 'donate' money to the team and so far this year we have been asked to donate to several charities the team sponsors.

While neither I nor my son I wouldn't change anything, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here other than the friends he will make and the experiences he will come away with.


Thank you for sharing. Nothing we don't know but everything rarely summarized so cleanly. College sports such a business now. Inflated rosters hurt more then help. Difficult to use more than get used. Compete against your teammates more than opponents.


Great post. I have a college Junior who hates Lacrosse and would love to quit. My son is a hard worker and starter on the team. It is even worse for the othe boys who don’t even have a shot of seeing the field and are getting very little money. All the coaches are nasty bastards, they are not at all what you see at the recruiting visits. They are unreasonable with their expectations. We have encouraged him to stick it out, although he insists that Lacrosse is ruining his like. The one good thing is the friendships he has made, they will have that bond forever.


Its tough now, but once he is done, he will look at it a lot differently. There is so much to be said about the perseverance it takes to complete 4 years of college athletics. I used to hate getting up and practicing on frozen grass at 6am in February and March. It felt like the worst job ever at times, but we pushed through it for our teammates. If they are going through it, we cant stay in bed with a clean conscience. When I have to do things I hate doing for my job or any other aspect of my life, I always remember dragging myself out of bed at 5am, breaking into a sweat in 15 degree weather, then standing and listening to our coaches talk while freezing our [ChillLaxin]es off for the remainder of practice. Everything else seems easy compared to that stuff. Wasn't overly excited about it back then, but would not trade the experience for anything now. Once every man gets to the age where they can no longer compete at that level, your appreciation of the adversity you pushed through increases 10 fold. Then you try to help your kids understand how important that commitment and work is later in life.


I agree - I didn't play lax in college but played football. Kind of the opposite heck - 135° on the astroturf for the first few weeks of practice, and cold and snowy practices and playoffs games at the end of the season, and 6+ days a week for the better part of 4 months. You definitely have a better appreciation of what you were willing to go through then when you are looking back. And for those that haven't experienced it, it's hard to begin to appreciate the time, effort and the competitiveness that is involved - it's a huge jump up from HS, even from a large program.


I agree with everything you guys are saying. One major regret I have was quitting lacrosse in college after two years. I had a serious injury but not career ending. I wish I had someone, should have been myself, to tell me to go out there and finish what you started. Not that I was a super star but I did love to play.

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