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Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247806 10/24/17 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
One thing is for sure. There is a big gap in this age between the top 2 and the rest. 91 will likely fall closer to the top 2 once they play. But everyone else is going to tighten up below this AA tier. That's not to say all the other teams aren't good, it's just those top 2 or 3 are really freaking good.


My biggest complaint about youth lacrosse after watching this over many years, with my three boys in varying classes: that there are almost always a (small) bunch of very good teams at the top but then the next GROUP down is treated like pariahs - the "everyone else is B" crowd, if you will. Your assessment is a better, objective take on this: there are the AA, and then there are A teams, and then B etc.


Far worse than this is the disparate ages of the kids competing, in a system where age is irrelevant. I have had multiple kids play and never once have I ever been asked for their age or DOB, and for that matter, proof of their grade. What the movers and shakers of travel lacrosse don't get is that this lack of age enforcement (or indeed, the lack of age even being relevant) drives people away. Travel hockey, which is fanatical in its age enforcement, has a much deeper pool of competitive levels, and therefore, paying customers, because once you ensure the kids are similar in age, you can do much more in terms of subdividing based on skill and athleticism.

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Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247817 10/24/17 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
One thing is for sure. There is a big gap in this age between the top 2 and the rest. 91 will likely fall closer to the top 2 once they play. But everyone else is going to tighten up below this AA tier. That's not to say all the other teams aren't good, it's just those top 2 or 3 are really freaking good.


My biggest complaint about youth lacrosse after watching this over many years, with my three boys in varying classes: that there are almost always a (small) bunch of very good teams at the top but then the next GROUP down is treated like pariahs - the "everyone else is B" crowd, if you will. Your assessment is a better, objective take on this: there are the AA, and then there are A teams, and then B etc.


Far worse than this is the disparate ages of the kids competing, in a system where age is irrelevant. I have had multiple kids play and never once have I ever been asked for their age or DOB, and for that matter, proof of their grade. What the movers and shakers of travel lacrosse don't get is that this lack of age enforcement (or indeed, the lack of age even being relevant) drives people away. Travel hockey, which is fanatical in its age enforcement, has a much deeper pool of competitive levels, and therefore, paying customers, because once you ensure the kids are similar in age, you can do much more in terms of subdividing based on skill and athleticism.


Yes, the age thing is my second biggest complaint, and it is largely a driver as to why tourneys and teams are unable to properly 'position' themselves. Hockey has done all of the heavy lifting here, so USL wouldn't have to do much more than 'steal' their model, other than with a few tweaks here and there (you can do away with the player-team exclusivity, for one).

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
TM@BOTC #247824 10/24/17 01:53 PM
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US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247853 10/24/17 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247889 10/24/17 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring


August events are almost like post season - teams are already holding tryouts by then. Until we see meaningful age-based tournaments between May and July, it won't be taking hold. That said, I guess you have to start somewhere...

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Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247947 10/25/17 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring


2022 will be able to play in a U14 tourney ??

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247954 10/25/17 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring


There is not one NY-based event for boys (and only for girls and that is in Lake George!), which speaks volumes to the fact that age-based play is not taking hold on LI yet. I don't see how Igloo or any other LI teams can take their regular roster if they have even one holdback/reclassed/whatever boy unless that boy or boys won't compete in those qualifying tourneys or the national tourney if they qualify. This is just like the WYSL - how do you field a grade-based team AND play in age-based tourneys without player issues?

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #247957 10/25/17 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring


There is not one NY-based event for boys (and only for girls and that is in Lake George!), which speaks volumes to the fact that age-based play is not taking hold on LI yet. I don't see how Igloo or any other LI teams can take their regular roster if they have even one holdback/reclassed/whatever boy unless that boy or boys won't compete in those qualifying tourneys or the national tourney if they qualify. This is just like the WYSL - how do you field a grade-based team AND play in age-based tourneys without player issues?


The only ones that can stop it are the tournament organizers. USA lacrosse has not mandated a universal id card for players and as a result players play wherever their parents register them. If like soccer the kids that were playing lined up with their id cards in the center of the field and the referees checked them then it would eliminate the issue. This will not happen because its about getting as many teams to register for your tournament. Why as many teams because its a business. If a tournament put in the restriction of validated age per year born not graduation year many teams would be unable to play. Issue is if one tournament is asking for age verification there are 5 others on the same day that are not and as a result teams and whole programs will go to the tournaments not requiring the proof of age. Whats interesting is that USA lacrosse has something in place but are not willing to implement it. Most kids have USA lacrosse id numbers. So if a player is registered with US lacrosse they already have an id# and a means to create a system to monitor birth year play. Its that simple. If parents held US lacrosse accountable maybe they would not turn a blind eye to it. Most tournaments and events are US lacrosse backed with insurance so it would be simple to do.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
America's Game #247960 10/25/17 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring


There is not one NY-based event for boys (and only for girls and that is in Lake George!), which speaks volumes to the fact that age-based play is not taking hold on LI yet. I don't see how Igloo or any other LI teams can take their regular roster if they have even one holdback/reclassed/whatever boy unless that boy or boys won't compete in those qualifying tourneys or the national tourney if they qualify. This is just like the WYSL - how do you field a grade-based team AND play in age-based tourneys without player issues?


The only ones that can stop it are the tournament organizers. USA lacrosse has not mandated a universal id card for players and as a result players play wherever their parents register them. If like soccer the kids that were playing lined up with their id cards in the center of the field and the referees checked them then it would eliminate the issue. This will not happen because its about getting as many teams to register for your tournament. Why as many teams because its a business. If a tournament put in the restriction of validated age per year born not graduation year many teams would be unable to play. Issue is if one tournament is asking for age verification there are 5 others on the same day that are not and as a result teams and whole programs will go to the tournaments not requiring the proof of age. Whats interesting is that USA lacrosse has something in place but are not willing to implement it. Most kids have USA lacrosse id numbers. So if a player is registered with US lacrosse they already have an id# and a means to create a system to monitor birth year play. Its that simple. If parents held US lacrosse accountable maybe they would not turn a blind eye to it. Most tournaments and events are US lacrosse backed with insurance so it would be simple to do.



Exactly - USL can force the issue by revoking insurance for all non-age-based play. The counter that will be the defections from USL and that tournaments can secure insurance on their own. I think that would be short-sighted by teams and tourneys to perpetuate a grade-based system for no other reason than that it is the status quo (there is zero rationale for grade-based play beyond that).

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #248088 10/26/17 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.


It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring


There is not one NY-based event for boys (and only for girls and that is in Lake George!), which speaks volumes to the fact that age-based play is not taking hold on LI yet. I don't see how Igloo or any other LI teams can take their regular roster if they have even one holdback/reclassed/whatever boy unless that boy or boys won't compete in those qualifying tourneys or the national tourney if they qualify. This is just like the WYSL - how do you field a grade-based team AND play in age-based tourneys without player issues?


The only ones that can stop it are the tournament organizers. USA lacrosse has not mandated a universal id card for players and as a result players play wherever their parents register them. If like soccer the kids that were playing lined up with their id cards in the center of the field and the referees checked them then it would eliminate the issue. This will not happen because its about getting as many teams to register for your tournament. Why as many teams because its a business. If a tournament put in the restriction of validated age per year born not graduation year many teams would be unable to play. Issue is if one tournament is asking for age verification there are 5 others on the same day that are not and as a result teams and whole programs will go to the tournaments not requiring the proof of age. Whats interesting is that USA lacrosse has something in place but are not willing to implement it. Most kids have USA lacrosse id numbers. So if a player is registered with US lacrosse they already have an id# and a means to create a system to monitor birth year play. Its that simple. If parents held US lacrosse accountable maybe they would not turn a blind eye to it. Most tournaments and events are US lacrosse backed with insurance so it would be simple to do.



Exactly - USL can force the issue by revoking insurance for all non-age-based play. The counter that will be the defections from USL and that tournaments can secure insurance on their own. I think that would be short-sighted by teams and tourneys to perpetuate a grade-based system for no other reason than that it is the status quo (there is zero rationale for grade-based play beyond that).


Agree

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Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
TM@BOTC #248219 10/28/17 08:24 AM
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Will it FALL BRAWL 2 today at Mitchell field? Igloo vs express again. Will the 2 opposing fogo's get back to their cheating ways? Igloo facing off with a fiddle stick, express taking a dive EVERY TIME he lises. Lots of drama. Can't wait. Penguin vs Italian stallion(Manhasset daddy who never stops whining to the ref about his attack son). How many of the 40 express players see the field in this game? Hint: it was 16 last week. Great day off 2022 lax drama!

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
TM@BOTC #248228 10/28/17 12:34 PM
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Super 32’s are this weekend. It’s one of the biggest high school wrestling tournaments of the year. Stop talking about some bs fall tournament and go over to Flowrestling to watch it. You will witness some of the best athletes in the country battle it out competing in the toughest sport on the planet. Have your laxbro of a son watch too. Maybe it will toughen little Johnny up a bit.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #248251 10/28/17 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Will it FALL BRAWL 2 today at Mitchell field? Igloo vs express again. Will the 2 opposing fogo's get back to their cheating ways? Igloo facing off with a fiddle stick, express taking a dive EVERY TIME he lises. Lots of drama. Can't wait. Penguin vs Italian stallion(Manhasset daddy who never stops whining to the ref about his attack son). How many of the 40 express players see the field in this game? Hint: it was 16 last week. Great day off 2022 lax drama!


Wait a second. Express goes 3-0 and whips Igloo and doesn't make the championship game in their own tourney because they were on the wrong end of the tiebreakers to Express North? Hahahahahaha!

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #248256 10/28/17 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Will it FALL BRAWL 2 today at Mitchell field? Igloo vs express again. Will the 2 opposing fogo's get back to their cheating ways? Igloo facing off with a fiddle stick, express taking a dive EVERY TIME he lises. Lots of drama. Can't wait. Penguin vs Italian stallion(Manhasset daddy who never stops whining to the ref about his attack son). How many of the 40 express players see the field in this game? Hint: it was 16 last week. Great day off 2022 lax drama!


Wait a second. Express goes 3-0 and whips Igloo and doesn't make the championship game in their own tourney because they were on the wrong end of the tiebreakers to Express North? Hahahahahaha!


Yup they set the brackets up wrong. Just have a big boy AA bracket and let the rest play A. Blatant did the same sill thing last week and it worked out, but it was close to another team backing in, for lack of a better term.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
Anonymous #248268 10/28/17 08:25 PM
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What's the difference. They are beating Igloo pretty easy now. What happened?

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