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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Wow, well said.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Some intellectual honesty might help this discussion. I know this will get ripped - but I’ll bet there are a lot of people with similar stories and it hardly ever gets discussed. And I also know there are people doing extreme things deliberately for an advantage in this sport and others.

If you played lacrosse back 20+/- years ago, you probably have great friends and former teammates from college who likely live in that other place. Did they somehow become evil child abusing cheaters? Over time did they all become whining crybabies? Not likely. What is more likely is that they are sending their kids to school in the way their school system says is best (public or private). People don’t want their kid to be an outlier age wise either way. Is that really hard to understand? Would you swim against the stream if you lived in the other place – and throw out the advice or rules of your school of choice? Most of us are just trying to do what is best for our kids and having them fit in age wise at school seems pretty logical. Forget the nut job double hold-back, double pre-k. pre-pre-first people for a minute, they do enough to ruin this great sport and hi-jack the conversation.

Two of my college teammates and best friends live in MD. They have boys roughly same age as my oldest (few months max). My son is young for his grade by our standards. We are all really close and consider each other “family”. My son plays in one age bracket, their boys play (2) age brackets lower. Call me an exaggerator – this is fact. According to my friends, their boys are average age for their team. I see them at tournaments because their oldest boys play against my next oldest son. Fair? No. Who would really even argue that? Evil? No. Cheating? Again – No. In practical reality - it isn’t up to them. They sent their boys to school the way the schools told them they should in order to attend. Now - they play club lax which is organized by grade. To them, you sign up and tryout and it is based by grade and that is that. I can see their point. These aren’t crazies that did this for an advantage in sports, but they also are guys that don’t deny their sons are advantaged by this set-up. I know their boys really well - they are great kids, really good players who work hard on this game. Win or lose these boys would much rather be playing my their older similar aged "cousin" than battling it out with their little “cousin”.

My friends and I get it – youth results really don’t mean anything – sorry folks, but they really, really don’t. We don’t care about the T-shirts or trophies, but the kids actually do - especially earlier on. When you win one - you want to know you earned it and when you come up short you shouldn’t have a built in excuse. Point – this system sucks for all the kids. Up until at least U15 it should be totally age based. Easy to do and easy to enforce. Better for all the kids. Can’t happen soon enough. My littlest ones are doing NXT, Adrenaline and 3d events when the time comes – I’ll seek out teams that seek that out. Hopefully everyone is along for the ride well before that.

Once they are in HS you have a different conversation - still an advantage, but a 5’10” 175 lb. 16 year old can at least compete v. 6’0” 200 lb. 18 yr. old. Simply not true with 5’2” 110 lb 12 yr. old v. 5’8” 150 lb 14 year old (both of whom btw will likely end up being the same size at the end of the day). It just isn’t good all around.

Club Directors - be as “elite” or AAA+++ as you want, make all the kids buy matching underwear and pajamas for the hotels with logos emblazoned on the sides, charge whatever, make as much money selling the college dream to 9 year old kids as you can, but please do it age based at the youth level. Much better for all the kids and the sport as a whole. Parents - the money you spend on this stuff is not an “investment” it’s a childhood activity for your son. If you view it the other way it clouds your thinking and makes it about the destination not the journey.


Appreciate your perspective

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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No one is cheating by holding back. Shut your mouth and take your beating on the field, the classroom and workplace.

Hope you get cancer as well. Statistically your ginger skin type makes it very likely. At least your kids are still living at home in their twenties so you always have them, and the 11 year old grandson. If you held them back maybe they would have earned that promotion at Starbucks months ago.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[/quote]

Grenada is nicer than Beirut also.


That's a ridiculous statement - 12 of the top 50 schools in NYS are on LI (USN News & World Rept), and even more would be included from Long Island were it that they had higher participation in standardized tests (I live in such a district - in top 100 in US for other reports that do not require standardized test participation thresholds). Many of these LI schools are similarly in the top for the entire country! Sorry if you live in one of the districts that isn't cutting it. Don't go away angry - just go away![/quote]

Even the trash public school system has to have a best location.
[/quote]

#JealousMuch ?[/quote]

Huh? Mine are all in very very nice privates, dude! Keep pumping out that government best, though, and yes, be prideful that you send yours to the best of the best trash public schools!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one is cheating by holding back. Shut your mouth and take your beating on the field, the classroom and workplace.

Hope you get cancer as well. Statistically your ginger skin type makes it very likely. At least your kids are still living at home in their twenties so you always have them, and the 11 year old grandson. If you held them back maybe they would have earned that promotion at Starbucks months ago.


You got the wrong guy, nice try though! My on age son will run circles around your wannabe every day of the week. You are exactly what is wrong with society in general. Glad I raised my kids to be above losers like you. Typical jackass running your mouth about things you have no idea about and never will. If you only knew who my son was, you would shut your mouth real quick and run back into the hole you came from. Holdbacks never were an issue for him, I am just sickened by what I see happening to this great sport because of [lacrosse] wipes like you.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Some intellectual honesty might help this discussion. I know this will get ripped - but I’ll bet there are a lot of people with similar stories and it hardly ever gets discussed. And I also know there are people doing extreme things deliberately for an advantage in this sport and others.

If you played lacrosse back 20+/- years ago, you probably have great friends and former teammates from college who likely live in that other place. Did they somehow become evil child abusing cheaters? Over time did they all become whining crybabies? Not likely. What is more likely is that they are sending their kids to school in the way their school system says is best (public or private). People don’t want their kid to be an outlier age wise either way. Is that really hard to understand? Would you swim against the stream if you lived in the other place – and throw out the advice or rules of your school of choice? Most of us are just trying to do what is best for our kids and having them fit in age wise at school seems pretty logical. Forget the nut job double hold-back, double pre-k. pre-pre-first people for a minute, they do enough to ruin this great sport and hi-jack the conversation.

Two of my college teammates and best friends live in MD. They have boys roughly same age as my oldest (few months max). My son is young for his grade by our standards. We are all really close and consider each other “family”. My son plays in one age bracket, their boys play (2) age brackets lower. Call me an exaggerator – this is fact. According to my friends, their boys are average age for their team. I see them at tournaments because their oldest boys play against my next oldest son. Fair? No. Who would really even argue that? Evil? No. Cheating? Again – No. In practical reality - it isn’t up to them. They sent their boys to school the way the schools told them they should in order to attend. Now - they play club lax which is organized by grade. To them, you sign up and tryout and it is based by grade and that is that. I can see their point. These aren’t crazies that did this for an advantage in sports, but they also are guys that don’t deny their sons are advantaged by this set-up. I know their boys really well - they are great kids, really good players who work hard on this game. Win or lose these boys would much rather be playing my their older similar aged "cousin" than battling it out with their little “cousin”.

My friends and I get it – youth results really don’t mean anything – sorry folks, but they really, really don’t. We don’t care about the T-shirts or trophies, but the kids actually do - especially earlier on. When you win one - you want to know you earned it and when you come up short you shouldn’t have a built in excuse. Point – this system sucks for all the kids. Up until at least U15 it should be totally age based. Easy to do and easy to enforce. Better for all the kids. Can’t happen soon enough. My littlest ones are doing NXT, Adrenaline and 3d events when the time comes – I’ll seek out teams that seek that out. Hopefully everyone is along for the ride well before that.

Once they are in HS you have a different conversation - still an advantage, but a 5’10” 175 lb. 16 year old can at least compete v. 6’0” 200 lb. 18 yr. old. Simply not true with 5’2” 110 lb 12 yr. old v. 5’8” 150 lb 14 year old (both of whom btw will likely end up being the same size at the end of the day). It just isn’t good all around.

Club Directors - be as “elite” or AAA+++ as you want, make all the kids buy matching underwear and pajamas for the hotels with logos emblazoned on the sides, charge whatever, make as much money selling the college dream to 9 year old kids as you can, but please do it age based at the youth level. Much better for all the kids and the sport as a whole. Parents - the money you spend on this stuff is not an “investment” it’s a childhood activity for your son. If you view it the other way it clouds your thinking and makes it about the destination not the journey.


Nicely said! Agree completely. In MD it will be hard to change as most elite players want to play in the MIAA, not all but most. That is full of holdbacks/prefirsts. The MIAA coaches like it that the MIAA kids are older and getting more playing time etc. Crabs and FCA are perfect examples of MIAA influenced teams full of older players.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

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And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.

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I watched a kid get his collar bone broken last weekend trying to defend a kid 30+ pounds heavier and way more physically mature. Not against the rules so it's all good...right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

Get on board people... we have cookies




And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I watched a kid get his collar bone broken last weekend trying to defend a kid 30+ pounds heavier and way more physically mature. Not against the rules so it's all good...right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

Get on board people... we have cookies




And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.



People deny it, but if the current system doesn't change on its own, there WILL BE a catastrophic injury, with a subsequent lawsuit, and then the external forces of lawyers/insurance will make the change come about. So, the only question is will that change be proactive or reactive? Considering NXT, Adrenaline, and 3D1's announcement, it is looking like proactive for now, but their phased in approach might get accelerated if something happens in the interim.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I watched a kid get his collar bone broken last weekend trying to defend a kid 30+ pounds heavier and way more physically mature. Not against the rules so it's all good...right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

Get on board people... we have cookies




And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.



Fault of the parents. You all saw a dangerous situation, yet left the smaller kids on the field. Want to fix the holdback problem, pull your team when there is an older kid. If that happens enough, the playing field will become level. But if YOU keep showing up and paying and playing you get what you deserve.

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Re: Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I watched a kid get his collar bone broken last weekend trying to defend a kid 30+ pounds heavier and way more physically mature. Not against the rules so it's all good...right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

Get on board people... we have cookies




And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.



Fault of the parents. You all saw a dangerous situation, yet left the smaller kids on the field. Want to fix the holdback problem, pull your team when there is an older kid. If that happens enough, the playing field will become level. But if YOU keep showing up and paying and playing you get what you deserve.


So the correct age kids should not be allowed to play? WOW

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I watched a kid get his collar bone broken last weekend trying to defend a kid 30+ pounds heavier and way more physically mature. Not against the rules so it's all good...right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

Get on board people... we have cookies




And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.



Fault of the parents. You all saw a dangerous situation, yet left the smaller kids on the field. Want to fix the holdback problem, pull your team when there is an older kid. If that happens enough, the playing field will become level. But if YOU keep showing up and paying and playing you get what you deserve.


So the correct age kids should not be allowed to play? WOW


Missing the point. You are saying "correct age", but are talking about a grade based league. In this case, there is no "correct age", there is only "correct grade". You are making up what you want it to be, then complaining! There are age based leagues that you can enter. If you sign up for grade based league, pay money, and step on the field, I suppose we are compelled to believe you were ok with the rules. Don't pay and complain. Just don't pay. There is a rec league for you, just around the corner somewhere.

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Open letter to all the 17 year old HS freshman and 16 year old HS Seniors and everybody in between -

Best of luck in all of your lacrosse and life endeavors - be the best you can be and enjoy your youth because soon enough you will be grown up, paying bills, beating the keyboard until your fingers are bleeding and hopefully titling at a windmill or two. It all goes by very fast .

Have fun in spite of us parents (yes I am including myself)

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I watched a kid get his collar bone broken last weekend trying to defend a kid 30+ pounds heavier and way more physically mature. Not against the rules so it's all good...right?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why do people use steroids? Because they work.

Why do people hold back their kids? Because it works.

You have to adapt to your community. LI has some good schools and Myles Jones PGed. To keep up with the Jones (LOL)

I have four kids, all hold backs. Only one plays sports at a high level. All four are judged based upon their peer group. Being older gives them more opportunities. They win. No cheating just using the arbitrary nature of the system established to treat kids based on their DOB. It is a joke.

Get on board people... we have cookies




And their peers all talk behind their backs. He won because he's a hold back or he should have won because he's a holdback. It's a lose lose. Just as they say "gaming" the system.



Fault of the parents. You all saw a dangerous situation, yet left the smaller kids on the field. Want to fix the holdback problem, pull your team when there is an older kid. If that happens enough, the playing field will become level. But if YOU keep showing up and paying and playing you get what you deserve.


So the correct age kids should not be allowed to play? WOW


Missing the point. You are saying "correct age", but are talking about a grade based league. In this case, there is no "correct age", there is only "correct grade". You are making up what you want it to be, then complaining! There are age based leagues that you can enter. If you sign up for grade based league, pay money, and step on the field, I suppose we are compelled to believe you were ok with the rules. Don't pay and complain. Just don't pay. There is a rec league for you, just around the corner somewhere.


There is a reasonable expectation of a limitation of age even within a grade-based system that has been turned on its head by private schools and/or athletics - that is the point that many are missing (or wish to obfuscate!). That age variance per grade level today versus 10 or 20 years ago is much greater, and for many not extensively involved in the private school realm (most people) and/or club lacrosse, their expectation today are not any different than twenty years ago. When I have had conversations with friends and family - people that all are readily involved in communities and sports on Long Island - that are not involved or knowledgeable about club lacrosse, they are flabbergasted about the scope of the whole pre-first/reclass thing. They all know some families who have started kids a year later here or there, but their perception is that MOST kids still start K at 5'ish and proceed along to graduate at ~17. Most people are unaware of the difference in state grade threshold cutoffs differing from NY - other than in lacrosse, where else would that even come up? Every other major youth sport is pure age-based, so this topic wouldn't arise. With lax growing as it has, the number of boys playing their first years of club lacrosse at many youth grade/age levels is also growing, and you are dealing with a large number of people who are just becoming aware of the the issue that grade-based play brings to the table. Stop assuming that everyone goes into this with all aspects of this clearly presented to them up front - the clubs, tournaments, etc do not go out of their way to make it known. The reality is that regardless of their feelings on the topic, one way or the other, as a business they don't want to present anything that might shrink their universe of potential customers, so intentionally never bringing this up is probably in their best interests for new customers.

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Missing the point. You are saying "correct age", but are talking about a grade based league. In this case, there is no "correct age", there is only "correct grade". You are making up what you want it to be, then complaining! There are age based leagues that you can enter. If you sign up for grade based league, pay money, and step on the field, I suppose we are compelled to believe you were ok with the rules. Don't pay and complain. Just don't pay. There is a rec league for you, just around the corner somewhere. [/quote]

There is a reasonable expectation of a limitation of age even within a grade-based system that has been turned on its head by private schools and/or athletics - that is the point that many are missing (or wish to obfuscate!). That age variance per grade level today versus 10 or 20 years ago is much greater, and for many not extensively involved in the private school realm (most people) and/or club lacrosse, their expectation today are not any different than twenty years ago. When I have had conversations with friends and family - people that all are readily involved in communities and sports on Long Island - that are not involved or knowledgeable about club lacrosse, they are flabbergasted about the scope of the whole pre-first/reclass thing. They all know some families who have started kids a year later here or there, but their perception is that MOST kids still start K at 5'ish and proceed along to graduate at ~17. Most people are unaware of the difference in state grade threshold cutoffs differing from NY - other than in lacrosse, where else would that even come up? Every other major youth sport is pure age-based, so this topic wouldn't arise. With lax growing as it has, the number of boys playing their first years of club lacrosse at many youth grade/age levels is also growing, and you are dealing with a large number of people who are just becoming aware of the the issue that grade-based play brings to the table. Stop assuming that everyone goes into this with all aspects of this clearly presented to them up front - the clubs, tournaments, etc do not go out of their way to make it known. The reality is that regardless of their feelings on the topic, one way or the other, as a business they don't want to present anything that might shrink their universe of potential customers, so intentionally never bringing this up is probably in their best interests for new customers.[/quote]

Or you could have just made a really loud fart noise if you wanted to do something more productive today.


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You are missing my point completely. I didn't say to penalize the on age kids. Pull your teams from tournaments that don't abide by the age based rules you want. With old your money, make the tournaments know you don't approve. Penalize the organizers of these events. Money talks, BOTC is a useless platform to elicit change. Grab the director of your team and along with the other parents tell him NO MORE! If you don't have that type of commitment then forget it, never going to change.

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.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


HS club is not going to do that, as it would be incredibly ineffective for scouting. HS club is for showcasing talent, not winning trophies. You play for the trophy during school in the Spring.
Youth, fine, sounds good. Now go and get it set up. Build it and they will come.

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I love the ineffective for scouting argument - when every other organized sports program is age based and they seem to figure out recruiting just fine.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


HS club is not going to do that, as it would be incredibly ineffective for scouting. HS club is for showcasing talent, not winning trophies. You play for the trophy during school in the Spring.
Youth, fine, sounds good. Now go and get it set up. Build it and they will come.


"ineffective for scouting"???? Then how do colleges in other sports scout in an age based system? The answer is that they do so just fine. This is the biggest myth out there coming from lax people who know nothing but lax. College coaches will go to the top AAA tournaments around. They will see the best play the best. They will identify who they want. Then they simply look at their program, note the GY, and commence recruiting (according to relevant rules in place by NCAA, ect.). How is this hard? Do you think their brain will freeze and they will go into a panic because a 16 year old middie is dodging the alley against a 16 year old pole who is a different GY than he is? Why can't they simply watch a 2002 BY game, see three elite players that they like, then recruit them? If the kid is GY 2020, than they can offer him a spot entering 2020. If the other two are GY 2021, than they can offer spots entering 2021. Why is it necessary for these three players to enter college in the same year? Do you really think college coaches can't handle this, when their counterparts in other sports easily can?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I love the ineffective for scouting argument - when every other organized sports program is age based and they seem to figure out recruiting just fine.


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.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


Unless the rules have changed lately, max age to play in the MIAA is 19 (you can turn 19 during your senior year). This is only one year older than the "normal" senior age (17 into 18).

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


HS club is not going to do that, as it would be incredibly ineffective for scouting. HS club is for showcasing talent, not winning trophies. You play for the trophy during school in the Spring.
Youth, fine, sounds good. Now go and get it set up. Build it and they will come.


"ineffective for scouting"???? Then how do colleges in other sports scout in an age based system? The answer is that they do so just fine. This is the biggest myth out there coming from lax people who know nothing but lax. College coaches will go to the top AAA tournaments around. They will see the best play the best. They will identify who they want. Then they simply look at their program, note the GY, and commence recruiting (according to relevant rules in place by NCAA, ect.). How is this hard? Do you think their brain will freeze and they will go into a panic because a 16 year old middie is dodging the alley against a 16 year old pole who is a different GY than he is? Why can't they simply watch a 2002 BY game, see three elite players that they like, then recruit them? If the kid is GY 2020, than they can offer him a spot entering 2020. If the other two are GY 2021, than they can offer spots entering 2021. Why is it necessary for these three players to enter college in the same year? Do you really think college coaches can't handle this, when their counterparts in other sports easily can?


You are comparing college staffs of 4-5 vs 14-15 with severely different program budgets. Much different. The Summer HS lax tourneys were set up this way to cater to small-staff scouting with collegiate coach guidance, so argue all you want, it's that way now, and business is booming. Take the age argument to youth where you can make some headway; stupid mindless argument at HS level. At the end of day, we are arguing over an average 1 year spread folks, education evolves, public could follow..

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


HS club is not going to do that, as it would be incredibly ineffective for scouting. HS club is for showcasing talent, not winning trophies. You play for the trophy during school in the Spring.
Youth, fine, sounds good. Now go and get it set up. Build it and they will come.


"ineffective for scouting"???? Then how do colleges in other sports scout in an age based system? The answer is that they do so just fine. This is the biggest myth out there coming from lax people who know nothing but lax. College coaches will go to the top AAA tournaments around. They will see the best play the best. They will identify who they want. Then they simply look at their program, note the GY, and commence recruiting (according to relevant rules in place by NCAA, ect.). How is this hard? Do you think their brain will freeze and they will go into a panic because a 16 year old middie is dodging the alley against a 16 year old pole who is a different GY than he is? Why can't they simply watch a 2002 BY game, see three elite players that they like, then recruit them? If the kid is GY 2020, than they can offer him a spot entering 2020. If the other two are GY 2021, than they can offer spots entering 2021. Why is it necessary for these three players to enter college in the same year? Do you really think college coaches can't handle this, when their counterparts in other sports easily can?


Well, you are currently on the counter side of what exists, so before you get too cocky, remember, the industry does not currently agree with you. So right now, you are a person that is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


Unless the rules have changed lately, max age to play in the MIAA is 19 (you can turn 19 during your senior year). This is only one year older than the "normal" senior age (17 into 18).


only huh. There can be huge difference between a high school senior and a college freshman. It's not changing but it is gaming the system without a doubt

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


Unless the rules have changed lately, max age to play in the MIAA is 19 (you can turn 19 during your senior year). This is only one year older than the "normal" senior age (17 into 18).


only huh. There can be huge difference between a high school senior and a college freshman. It's not changing but it is gaming the system without a doubt


and you can also just turn 17 in your senior year making the spread 2 years not just or only 1 year

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The only point of the age argument is for public school parents to marginalize private school families in their own minds. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously private systems have evolved at a greater rate than public systems, so the only way to make themselves feel better is to bully and criticize. There's plenty to criticize about the public system, but I don't typically see parents on here going out of their way to point out the negatives of public school education. Maybe they should, plenty of material.

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My kids go to private school
My kids are on age
My kids play/played Varsity lacrosse in the MIAA
My kid is on a top 20 D1 lax team

There is nothing noble about reclassing your child. It's a pathetic way of making mediocre kids look better than they really are.

Sorry - truth hurts.


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


HS club is not going to do that, as it would be incredibly ineffective for scouting. HS club is for showcasing talent, not winning trophies. You play for the trophy during school in the Spring.
Youth, fine, sounds good. Now go and get it set up. Build it and they will come.


"ineffective for scouting"???? Then how do colleges in other sports scout in an age based system? The answer is that they do so just fine. This is the biggest myth out there coming from lax people who know nothing but lax. College coaches will go to the top AAA tournaments around. They will see the best play the best. They will identify who they want. Then they simply look at their program, note the GY, and commence recruiting (according to relevant rules in place by NCAA, ect.). How is this hard? Do you think their brain will freeze and they will go into a panic because a 16 year old middie is dodging the alley against a 16 year old pole who is a different GY than he is? Why can't they simply watch a 2002 BY game, see three elite players that they like, then recruit them? If the kid is GY 2020, than they can offer him a spot entering 2020. If the other two are GY 2021, than they can offer spots entering 2021. Why is it necessary for these three players to enter college in the same year? Do you really think college coaches can't handle this, when their counterparts in other sports easily can?


You are comparing college staffs of 4-5 vs 14-15 with severely different program budgets. Much different. The Summer HS lax tourneys were set up this way to cater to small-staff scouting with collegiate coach guidance, so argue all you want, it's that way now, and business is booming. Take the age argument to youth where you can make some headway; stupid mindless argument at HS level. At the end of day, we are arguing over an average 1 year spread folks, education evolves, public could follow..


You think college soccer programs are staffed any differently than lax programs?? Please. I agree that you can stay grade-based at HS, but still the argument to not go age-based even there for the sake of recruiting ease is weak at best.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


HS club is not going to do that, as it would be incredibly ineffective for scouting. HS club is for showcasing talent, not winning trophies. You play for the trophy during school in the Spring.
Youth, fine, sounds good. Now go and get it set up. Build it and they will come.


"ineffective for scouting"???? Then how do colleges in other sports scout in an age based system? The answer is that they do so just fine. This is the biggest myth out there coming from lax people who know nothing but lax. College coaches will go to the top AAA tournaments around. They will see the best play the best. They will identify who they want. Then they simply look at their program, note the GY, and commence recruiting (according to relevant rules in place by NCAA, ect.). How is this hard? Do you think their brain will freeze and they will go into a panic because a 16 year old middie is dodging the alley against a 16 year old pole who is a different GY than he is? Why can't they simply watch a 2002 BY game, see three elite players that they like, then recruit them? If the kid is GY 2020, than they can offer him a spot entering 2020. If the other two are GY 2021, than they can offer spots entering 2021. Why is it necessary for these three players to enter college in the same year? Do you really think college coaches can't handle this, when their counterparts in other sports easily can?


Well, you are currently on the counter side of what exists, so before you get too cocky, remember, the industry does not currently agree with you. So right now, you are a person that is wrong.


Being on other side of the majority ≠ wrong! It only means you are not on the side of the majority.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
.... and as others have said, these club owners would make more money if they used a strict calendar year system. It would open up club lacrosse to a wider range of athletes, skill level and experience. The best of the best of the best can hang with older kids, and their families probably love it. But the more typical "good" athlete can not.

The MD MIAA and the MA and PA prep schoolers can still enter HS at 16, and enter college at 20. No one wants to stop that if that is what they want. Just have club lacrosse be age on age. AAA, AA, A and B divisions. Will increase enrollment and $$$ for club owners. Fair, even, competitive games keeps parents coming back, and entices more parents to come - especially from the lesser athletes and the less experienced players, who can play A or B and have fun.


Unless the rules have changed lately, max age to play in the MIAA is 19 (you can turn 19 during your senior year). This is only one year older than the "normal" senior age (17 into 18).


While there is a huge amount of HS players turning 19 during the school year, There is only a few that turn 20 prior to school year. These double holdbacks if not starters stay and play occasionally. People turn a blind eye as they have no effect on game.... I have seen this. I do know of a couple of starters( two year) who were turning 20 prior to season and went to a PG school where they played without an issue. It is a rare thing of double holdbacks in MIAA but does happen. Doesnt have much effect.

Now the 19 year old's ...Loaded at the MIAA schools. Funny how Booker announcing on his network saying.."this player is a great soph or Freshman wonder"..knowing full well the player is a JR age wise ore Soph age wise in MD. ...

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The only point of the age argument is for public school parents to marginalize private school families in their own minds. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously private systems have evolved at a greater rate than public systems, so the only way to make themselves feel better is to bully and criticize. There's plenty to criticize about the public system, but I don't typically see parents on here going out of their way to point out the negatives of public school education. Maybe they should, plenty of material.


You marginalized yourself pretty well with your holier than thou attitude, arrogance and behavior. You don't need our help.

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LOL, never thought I'd see the day where even TY Xander denounces the POS cheaters. Saying it's not fair and needs to stop. Check your twitter

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USL coming out with Ranking system for all tourneys also using Tourney Machine. Only mentions the age cutoff divisions. Clubs would hate to miss out on that.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The only point of the age argument is for public school parents to marginalize private school families in their own minds. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously private systems have evolved at a greater rate than public systems, so the only way to make themselves feel better is to bully and criticize. There's plenty to criticize about the public system, but I don't typically see parents on here going out of their way to point out the negatives of public school education. Maybe they should, plenty of material.


This might be the single dumbest post on the site, and that says a lot. No one, and I mean no one, is looking to "marginalize" private school families. My kids go to public school. I don't care if every kid on their travel team goes to private school. I don't care if every opponent at every tournament goes to private school. All I care about is having the kids play vs kids their own age.

I also don't care what grade my kids teammates are, and I don't care what grade their opponents are in. Indeed, I don't even care if they go to school at all.

There are a s---t ton of private school kids playing hockey. They all play on age, and there are no issues with this whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The only point of the age argument is for public school parents to marginalize private school families in their own minds. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously private systems have evolved at a greater rate than public systems, so the only way to make themselves feel better is to bully and criticize. There's plenty to criticize about the public system, but I don't typically see parents on here going out of their way to point out the negatives of public school education. Maybe they should, plenty of material.


This might be the single dumbest post on the site, and that says a lot. No one, and I mean no one, is looking to "marginalize" private school families. My kids go to public school. I don't care if every kid on their travel team goes to private school. I don't care if every opponent at every tournament goes to private school. All I care about is having the kids play vs kids their own age.

I also don't care what grade my kids teammates are, and I don't care what grade their opponents are in. Indeed, I don't even care if they go to school at all.

There are a s---t ton of private school kids playing hockey. They all play on age, and there are no issues with this whatsoever.


Somehow lax is "special" . . . or something . . .!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The only point of the age argument is for public school parents to marginalize private school families in their own minds. Nothing more, nothing less. Obviously private systems have evolved at a greater rate than public systems, so the only way to make themselves feel better is to bully and criticize. There's plenty to criticize about the public system, but I don't typically see parents on here going out of their way to point out the negatives of public school education. Maybe they should, plenty of material.


This might be the single dumbest post on the site, and that says a lot. No one, and I mean no one, is looking to "marginalize" private school families. My kids go to public school. I don't care if every kid on their travel team goes to private school. I don't care if every opponent at every tournament goes to private school. All I care about is having the kids play vs kids their own age.

I also don't care what grade my kids teammates are, and I don't care what grade their opponents are in. Indeed, I don't even care if they go to school at all.

There are a s---t ton of private school kids playing hockey. They all play on age, and there are no issues with this whatsoever.


Somehow lax is "special" . . . or something . . .!


I think part of the problem is that on-age proponents are sloppy with their arguments, and make it seem like they are advocating against holdbacks, which I think is what threatens private school families who want to hold their kids back for reasons that may be broader than just lax.

Instead, its best to advocate that families should be able to hold their kids back all they want. It's none of my business if a kids completes two years at 8th grade. I don't care if every frosh at St. Elite HS is 16. Just play vs kids your own age in travel lax. School has nothing to do with youth travel lax.

Copying hockey would be perfect. It should be birth year (or Sept-Aug; no need to EXACTLY copy hockey if Sept-Aug is deemed best) exclusively up to and through when the kids are 15. At 16 there would be a split - like their is in hockey. The top kids can go to "junior lax", where kids ages 16-20 compete together and otherwise prep for college lax. The rest (the majority of kids) can still play on age in "[lacrosse] lax". Kids playing [lacrosse] would largely be kids not going D1, or even college at all - just kids who like to play and are prepping for the final years of HS lax.

The top kids who are playing "junior lax" - for the prep school kids who might be 19 or 20 entering college, they can play here for 4 years, then start their college careers. For the public school kids, they can play here for two years. When they graduate and they are ready for college and college lax, they go. If they want, they can do a PG year before college, ect.

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Anyone know the date for the Syracuse 17 year-old Fall Prospect Day?

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This HS age debate is just birth-year-baby warm-up for whining about ages in college. Just watch..

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
LOL, never thought I'd see the day where even TY Xander denounces the POS cheaters. Saying it's not fair and needs to stop. Check your twitter


Age based is coming, If you have reclassed and not already going into Sophomore year, I'd be worried, your perceived advantage is about to disappear.

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