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Re: Boys 2023- PA and Surrounding Area
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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So now the kids are 11 and 12 and you think it is that much different. Most of the good teams the nucleus stays intact. If you don't know that then you must be on a bad team. Sure there is roster turnover but for the most part every team usually gets better as success attracts better players.


Not totally different, but a few really good players. One is a big fast middie that will win every faceoff. Of all people, BL parents should know that a few kids can make a tremendous difference. Take you pole and your middie off the team and you're a middle of the PA pack. You know that is true.


Such is life. It's not a revelation that "superstars" make a difference. The same principle applies to all teams and organizations in general. There are the stars and then there is the supporting cast. Attract, develop and retain the best and you'll have a winning formula. The teams that do this, win. BL does this very well and they're winning. Stating they would be middle of the pack ignores this principle and diminishes the contributions of everyone from the top down.


Well said, however, those words don't cover up the fact that without those two, the team would be a successful club. But they have them and they are. With that being said, that doesn't mean that they are still better than Lax Black because they beat them two years ago. It would be a good game for sure, but I think Lax Black is a better team. My son's team played both teams last summer (oh, and 2 summers ago beat Lax Black by 6). Lax Black was the better team of the two last season. That's doesn't mean they will always be, but unlike BL parents, I have a point of reference that you don't.

You need to get out of Pennsyltucky before you can claim to be better than everyone else.


I can let the reference to Pennsyltucky slide. Anyone who knows anything about the main line, horse country and Northern Delaware knows there's nothing "tucky" about us. Assuming you weren't plucked off the top of some "mountain" in the Berkshires let's call it a draw at the very least. You are right in saying that exceptional players elevate teams, but you're missing the bigger point. My son, for example, is not the middie or pole people are referring to so let's call him one of the supporting cast. How does he support? In a contest for a ground ball, you'd want to put your money on him. Even though he is one of the smaller middies, it's not unusual to see him bend kids twice his size in half with legal hits. You can also count on him for at least one goal per game. Now, populate your entire team with kids like him as BL has done and they win. Add two power players and you begin to dominate. Keep an eye on them.

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Our NJ club team was at NXT this fall and while we got spanked by Brotherly Love I have to applaud the team for the way they play the game. In my estimation they have 3-4 elite players and then a lot of very good players. This is not why they win. I watched all 3 of their games (all 3 were in the football stadium not sure how that is fair but different thread) and they win because the whole team plays defense like their life depends on it. As a former d pole I respect that all 10
absolutely swarm to the ball. In this day of selfish professional athletes and coddled kids that comes down to coaching and team culture. That is why we scored 2 goals, Dukes Nationals scored 0, and a Maryland team not sure
Who s scored I think 1.

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Bandits

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So now the kids are 11 and 12 and you think it is that much different. Most of the good teams the nucleus stays intact. If you don't know that then you must be on a bad team. Sure there is roster turnover but for the most part every team usually gets better as success attracts better players.


Not totally different, but a few really good players. One is a big fast middie that will win every faceoff. Of all people, BL parents should know that a few kids can make a tremendous difference. Take you pole and your middie off the team and you're a middle of the PA pack. You know that is true.


Such is life. It's not a revelation that "superstars" make a difference. The same principle applies to all teams and organizations in general. There are the stars and then there is the supporting cast. Attract, develop and retain the best and you'll have a winning formula. The teams that do this, win. BL does this very well and they're winning. Stating they would be middle of the pack ignores this principle and diminishes the contributions of everyone from the top down.


Well said, however, those words don't cover up the fact that without those two, the team would be a successful club. But they have them and they are. With that being said, that doesn't mean that they are still better than Lax Black because they beat them two years ago. It would be a good game for sure, but I think Lax Black is a better team. My son's team played both teams last summer (oh, and 2 summers ago beat Lax Black by 6). Lax Black was the better team of the two last season. That's doesn't mean they will always be, but unlike BL parents, I have a point of reference that you don't.

You need to get out of Pennsyltucky before you can claim to be better than everyone else.


I can let the reference to Pennsyltucky slide. Anyone who knows anything about the main line, horse country and Northern Delaware knows there's nothing "tucky" about us. Assuming you weren't plucked off the top of some "mountain" in the Berkshires let's call it a draw at the very least. You are right in saying that exceptional players elevate teams, but you're missing the bigger point. My son, for example, is not the middie or pole people are referring to so let's call him one of the supporting cast. How does he support? In a contest for a ground ball, you'd want to put your money on him. Even though he is one of the smaller middies, it's not unusual to see him bend kids twice his size in half with legal hits. You can also count on him for at least one goal per game. Now, populate your entire team with kids like him as BL has done and they win. Add two power players and you begin to dominate. Keep an eye on them.


I don't think that the two aforementioned players are their best kid. Played them in box and they have a little lefty short stick that can absolutletly fly and has some some skills but as they say speed kills

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Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.

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We have played BL several times, lost every time except for once we almost won but some boneheaded decisions by both coaches and players resulted in an overtime loss. The best kid on the team is the lefty pole. Once they move that player to attack where he belongs he will be the best player on the team and the field. I think they have 4-5 exceptional players but at this point does it really matter? Will be interesting to see how the summer plays out but remember what I said about the standout player.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You are both idiots....

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
We have played BL several times, lost every time except for once we almost won but some boneheaded decisions by both coaches and players resulted in an overtime loss. The best kid on the team is the lefty pole. Once they move that player to attack where he belongs he will be the best player on the team and the field. I think they have 4-5 exceptional players but at this point does it really matter? Will be interesting to see how the summer plays out but remember what I said about the standout player.


Two

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You are both idiots....


Agreed. Idiots often fall in love with their own opinions as fact. From what I've observed, the average players aren't on the club teams (even your son's team, guy who called my kid average). Average lacrosse players stick to their community teams and that does it for them. They don't play much outside of practice or the games and they do alright, but they are average. Put them up against most club players and you'll have a different perspective on what average is. Maybe your sons team is the anomaly that has mostly casual lacrosse players on it?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
We have played BL several times, lost every time except for once we almost won but some boneheaded decisions by both coaches and players resulted in an overtime loss. The best kid on the team is the lefty pole. Once they move that player to attack where he belongs he will be the best player on the team and the field. I think they have 4-5 exceptional players but at this point does it really matter? Will be interesting to see how the summer plays out but remember what I said about the standout player.


Two


We don't have a lefty pole

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I was referring to the fastest kid on your team or at least he looks like it to me that plays middie and attack. He is left handed and SHORT pole. I just saw him again at a Box Tourney...everyone else looks like they are in quick sand...to me he was clearly the best kid on BL...maybe he doesn't play on field team for you guys.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was referring to the fastest kid on your team or at least he looks like it to me that plays middie and attack. He is left handed and SHORT pole. I just saw him again at a Box Tourney...everyone else looks like they are in quick sand...to me he was clearly the best kid on BL...maybe he doesn't play on field team for you guys.


He is our starting LH attackman and our best box player..by far the most committed to playing indoors. We have 2-3 middies that are just as fast, speed is definitely a strength of the 23's.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You are both idiots....


Agreed. Idiots often fall in love with their own opinions as fact. From what I've observed, the average players aren't on the club teams (even your son's team, guy who called my kid average). Average lacrosse players stick to their community teams and that does it for them. They don't play much outside of practice or the games and they do alright, but they are average. Put them up against most club players and you'll have a different perspective on what average is. Maybe your sons team is the anomaly that has mostly casual lacrosse players on it?


Where I'm from, everyone plays club. Tons of average kids.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You are both idiots....


Agreed. Idiots often fall in love with their own opinions as fact. From what I've observed, the average players aren't on the club teams (even your son's team, guy who called my kid average). Average lacrosse players stick to their community teams and that does it for them. They don't play much outside of practice or the games and they do alright, but they are average. Put them up against most club players and you'll have a different perspective on what average is. Maybe your sons team is the anomaly that has mostly casual lacrosse players on it?


Where I'm from, everyone plays club. Tons of average kids.


I guess that's why some areas are much stronger than others. I know that on LI/Md, kids don't just play club so they can play in college. They need to do it just to play JV and Varsity. Some places are just more committed and competitive than PA. Here, we take all of the top kids and we have one really good team. Elsewhere, there are so many more options that elite kids play for so many different teams because they have more opportunities for playing time, location benefits and travel preferences. We have some talent, but we are still in the infancy stage. We can't compete with the deep rooted areas. That's the reality.

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In my area, a good portion of the kids on the community youth teams have no aspirations to play JV let alone Varsity. They are great kids, but once the stick goes in the trunk after practice, it stays there until the next practice. That's neither good or bad, it's just the reality. Yes, even some of those kids go on to JV and Varsity, but the mentality is different compared to the kids here who participate in club and have nets in their backyards. Tryouts for the club teams weed out the average players (by our standards) for the most part, but it's all relative. If we are comprised of mostly average kids and we beat your team, are most of your kids below average? I doubt it.

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I would disagree. We have clubs competing at a high level. Some are better in high school some are better at the youth ranks but the following are all competitive. NXT, Mesa, Freedom, Brotherly Love, Triple H, and Dukes. Sure MD and LI has elite teams as well but really only 3-4 from each of the two geographies. I can speak to 2023 and 2024 and there really is only 2-3 clubs that are elite from each area. I know of really only 3-4 from LI and 2-3 from MD.

On a national high school level we simply don't get enough respect and it really is just a "geography reputation" factor. When schools like Salesanium, Garnet Valley, and Conestoga lose by a goal to Malvern Prep or Sallies does well againsts the #1 in the country. How do these schools not get nationally ranked higher than the bottom half of the MIAA and NY schools. Whether it is Dox Aitken, Matt Rambo, Jordan Wolf, Ryan Sankey, Mike Sowers, Ryan Mcnulty, Matt Moore to name just a few they are all from Philly and all elite. Does the game have more of a footprint in MD and LI asbsolutelty but this area has a plenty of talent.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would disagree. We have clubs competing at a high level. Some are better in high school some are better at the youth ranks but the following are all competitive. NXT, Mesa, Freedom, Brotherly Love, Triple H, and Dukes. Sure MD and LI has elite teams as well but really only 3-4 from each of the two geographies. I can speak to 2023 and 2024 and there really is only 2-3 clubs that are elite from each area. I know of really only 3-4 from LI and 2-3 from MD.

On a national high school level we simply don't get enough respect and it really is just a "geography reputation" factor. When schools like Salesanium, Garnet Valley, and Conestoga lose by a goal to Malvern Prep or Sallies does well againsts the #1 in the country. How do these schools not get nationally ranked higher than the bottom half of the MIAA and NY schools. Whether it is Dox Aitken, Matt Rambo, Jordan Wolf, Ryan Sankey, Mike Sowers, Ryan Mcnulty, Matt Moore to name just a few they are all from Philly and all elite. Does the game have more of a footprint in MD and LI asbsolutelty but this area has a plenty of talent.


There is some truth to that; however, with the exception of BL, there are probably 6-7 teams from LI alone (Both 91, Express A & B, S2S, Igloo and Leg a sea off of the top of my head) that will beat all of those teams you mentioned and most will be blowouts. There is talent, no doubt, but the playing field is not even close to level. Geographical reputation is all in your head. Last year, the top 20 nationally ranked teams hailed from 6-7 different states. Good teams get respect regardless of geography.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would disagree. We have clubs competing at a high level. Some are better in high school some are better at the youth ranks but the following are all competitive. NXT, Mesa, Freedom, Brotherly Love, Triple H, and Dukes. Sure MD and LI has elite teams as well but really only 3-4 from each of the two geographies. I can speak to 2023 and 2024 and there really is only 2-3 clubs that are elite from each area. I know of really only 3-4 from LI and 2-3 from MD.

On a national high school level we simply don't get enough respect and it really is just a "geography reputation" factor. When schools like Salesanium, Garnet Valley, and Conestoga lose by a goal to Malvern Prep or Sallies does well againsts the #1 in the country. How do these schools not get nationally ranked higher than the bottom half of the MIAA and NY schools. Whether it is Dox Aitken, Matt Rambo, Jordan Wolf, Ryan Sankey, Mike Sowers, Ryan Mcnulty, Matt Moore to name just a few they are all from Philly and all elite. Does the game have more of a footprint in MD and LI asbsolutelty but this area has a plenty of talent.


There is some truth to that; however, with the exception of BL, there are probably 6-7 teams from LI alone (Both 91, Express A & B, S2S, Igloo and Leg a sea off of the top of my head) that will beat all of those teams you mentioned and most will be blowouts. There is talent, no doubt, but the playing field is not even close to level. Geographical reputation is all in your head. Last year, the top 20 nationally ranked teams hailed from 6-7 different states. Good teams get respect regardless of geography.


Actually, the top 25 came from 13 different states:
Md (2)
Ct (2)
DC (1)
NY (8)
Ma (2)
NJ (1)
In (1)
Ontario (1)
Va (1)
Pa (2)
NH (1)
Co (1)
Ca (1)

Spread throughout the country. No geographical bias present.

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I agree with your depth of talent and I do think that the talent is spread over more club teams thus resulting in a dilution factor for LI and MD. The top talent is the top talent meaning the top 20 kids from each of the three areas for example are all going to be comparable...there is a ceiling of ability no matter where you come from. This is why Philly has top notch players in Collegiate ranks the top 20 are the top 20 but then there is a bigger fall off for us. Now I will concede that both LI and MD after the top 20 kids have much more parity thus reconciling to the point about depth of talent.

I still disagree about the National Rankings. Yes they make a token effort to include disparate geographical areas; however, teams from MIAA and NY Leagues are routinely included in the top 20 simply because of where they hail from geographically and they "fill out" the rankings with those teams.

I will give you two examples. Malvern Prep out of Philly was the #1 ranked team in the country a couple of seasons ago and Avon Grove which had a stacked team loses to them in overtime by a single goal and never even gets into the top 20?? How do you lose to the #1 Team and not even get a mention?? Then Malvern Prep goes on and beats a lot of MD and NY teams handily that REMAIN in the top 20? If an MIAA or NY team were to lose to Malvern by a single goal that year they would have shot up in the rankings.

Second example Salesanium which is a Delaware school but has a ton of Philly talent loses to the #1 School in the Country last year Hill School, by a score of 10-9. How to they not appear in the National Rankings?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.

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Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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I would disagree. We have clubs competing at a high level. Some are better in high school some are better at the youth ranks but the following are all competitive. NXT, Mesa, Freedom, Brotherly Love, Triple H, and Dukes. Sure MD and LI has elite teams as well but really only 3-4 from each of the two geographies. I can speak to 2023 and 2024 and there really is only 2-3 clubs that are elite from each area. I know of really only 3-4 from LI and 2-3 from MD.

On a national high school level we simply don't get enough respect and it really is just a "geography reputation" factor. When schools like Salesanium, Garnet Valley, and Conestoga lose by a goal to Malvern Prep or Sallies does well againsts the #1 in the country. How do these schools not get nationally ranked higher than the bottom half of the MIAA and NY schools. Whether it is Dox Aitken, Matt Rambo, Jordan Wolf, Ryan Sankey, Mike Sowers, Ryan Mcnulty, Matt Moore to name just a few they are all from Philly and all elite. Does the game have more of a footprint in MD and LI asbsolutelty but this area has a plenty of talent.


There is some truth to that; however, with the exception of BL, there are probably 6-7 teams from LI alone (Both 91, Express A & B, S2S, Igloo and Leg a sea off of the top of my head) that will beat all of those teams you mentioned and most will be blowouts. There is talent, no doubt, but the playing field is not even close to level. Geographical reputation is all in your head. Last year, the top 20 nationally ranked teams hailed from 6-7 different states. Good teams get respect regardless of geography.


Actually, the top 25 came from 13 different states:
Md (2)
Ct (2)
DC (1)
NY (8)
Ma (2)
NJ (1)
In (1)
Ontario (1)
Va (1)
Pa (2)
NH (1)
Co (1)
Ca (1)

Spread throughout the country. No geographical bias present.

what is this "top 25" what?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?


2016 final ranking. Those are the states (districts and provinces) with teams that were ranked in the top 25 nationally and how many teams from each.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.


If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?


2016 final ranking. Those are the states (districts and provinces) with teams that were ranked in the top 25 nationally and how many teams from each.


I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.


If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.


Fair enough but answer me this am I right or wrong in my assessment of their 2024 team? Who is their third best player.

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Not a bl parent. But the 24 team is a very compatible team. Better than igloo and better than express A and B

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I agree with your depth of talent and I do think that the talent is spread over more club teams thus resulting in a dilution factor for LI and MD. The top talent is the top talent meaning the top 20 kids from each of the three areas for example are all going to be comparable...there is a ceiling of ability no matter where you come from. This is why Philly has top notch players in Collegiate ranks the top 20 are the top 20 but then there is a bigger fall off for us. Now I will concede that both LI and MD after the top 20 kids have much more parity thus reconciling to the point about depth of talent.

I still disagree about the National Rankings. Yes they make a token effort to include disparate geographical areas; however, teams from MIAA and NY Leagues are routinely included in the top 20 simply because of where they hail from geographically and they "fill out" the rankings with those teams.

I will give you two examples. Malvern Prep out of Philly was the #1 ranked team in the country a couple of seasons ago and Avon Grove which had a stacked team loses to them in overtime by a single goal and never even gets into the top 20?? How do you lose to the #1 Team and not even get a mention?? Then Malvern Prep goes on and beats a lot of MD and NY teams handily that REMAIN in the top 20? If an MIAA or NY team were to lose to Malvern by a single goal that year they would have shot up in the rankings.

Second example Salesanium which is a Delaware school but has a ton of Philly talent loses to the #1 School in the Country last year Hill School, by a score of 10-9. How to they not appear in the National Rankings?


Salesanium is a very good team. They finished 2016 ranked #63 in the country. They lost to Hill Academy who finished #10. They also lost to Malverne at #17 and Culver at #33. All 3 losses were to quality teams. The problem is that their wins didn't come against highly ranked opponents. Their best win was against Easton Area, and they finished the season ay #82. In order to break into the top 25 they need to play more non-league games against top ranked opponents. That goes with any real ranking system.

Your first example is a lot more irrelevant. Yes, in 2014 Avon Grove lost an early season game to Malverne in OT. And yes, Malverne finished the season #2 behind only Boys Latin. The problem is that they lost their next two games to Central Bucks East and Bishop Shanahan... not exactly dominant programs. Not even ranked in the top 500. A team needs to put together a body of work; they can't be judged on a single lucky game.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.


If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.


Fair enough but answer me this am I right or wrong in my assessment of their 2024 team? Who is their third best player.


I think this is a 2023 thread and my kid plays 2023. I don't follow 2024 closely enough to answer that. I've got to ask you though, do you really follow other teams that closely? I think I understand the point you're trying to make, but again, I'll buy you lunch at one of the upcoming events if it cheers you up. Man, you're world is a real bummer.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.


If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.


Besides, this is a 2023 forum.. who cares about 2024?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?


2016 final ranking. Those are the states (districts and provinces) with teams that were ranked in the top 25 nationally and how many teams from each.


I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other


Sorry, I misunderstood. Laxpower rankings.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agreed can't imagine trying to keep up with that kid on a full field rest of the team was good but didn't see anything exceptional


He's too small. Unfortunately he is shut down regularly on the field.


BL has two stud players. A middie and a pole. The rest are average players. Nothing wrong with that since they are still young and there is plenty of time for them to develop into quality players. However, if you take those two exceptional players off of that team you would be left with a middle of the road PA team (LI or Maryland bottom tier). That's just the way it is. To the guy whose kid regularly "bends kids twice his size", that's great. Unless he's the #1 middie or the #1 pole, he's average. Most teams are constructed this way.


You could make the same point about Brotherly Love's 2024 Team as well. If you take the coach's son (I think #10) and the goalie off the team they are a B Team. Great goalie and the kid at attack either scores the goal or assists on 90% of their points. Don't see how this team was picked to participate in the Elite Eight. C'mon BL you know that I am speaking the truth...Stole the goalie from another club and without #10 you stink.


If I didn't know the BL kids better, I'd swear that one of them stole your lunch money. You sure do put a lot of energy into hating them.


Fair enough but answer me this am I right or wrong in my assessment of their 2024 team? Who is their third best player.


I think we're talking about 2023's.

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The third best player is the kid with a BL uniform on and a lax stick in his hand? Are we now ranking players on 5th grade teams? No BL fan but get a life!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?


2016 final ranking. Those are the states (districts and provinces) with teams that were ranked in the top 25 nationally and how many teams from each.


I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other


That's the issue. If you're not a traditionally powerful program, you need to get out and play some of the traditionally powerful programs in order to see how your team stacks up. Otherwise, you'll be ranked against who you play.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wait a minute what rankings are you citing? Is it this years?


2016 final ranking. Those are the states (districts and provinces) with teams that were ranked in the top 25 nationally and how many teams from each.


I was referring to IL UA Warrior etc
You do have to concede if you lose to the #1 Team in the country by a single goal you should be in the top 20 the following week. It should be what happens on the field a lot of these teams s don't even play each other


These rankings are a joke, unless you are a private school you are barely considered. And, the private schools don't want to play the publics because if they lose it will look real bad. Imagine the horror of those parents paying $40K for that private lacrosse experience and then losing to a public?!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I agree with your depth of talent and I do think that the talent is spread over more club teams thus resulting in a dilution factor for LI and MD. The top talent is the top talent meaning the top 20 kids from each of the three areas for example are all going to be comparable...there is a ceiling of ability no matter where you come from. This is why Philly has top notch players in Collegiate ranks the top 20 are the top 20 but then there is a bigger fall off for us. Now I will concede that both LI and MD after the top 20 kids have much more parity thus reconciling to the point about depth of talent.

I still disagree about the National Rankings. Yes they make a token effort to include disparate geographical areas; however, teams from MIAA and NY Leagues are routinely included in the top 20 simply because of where they hail from geographically and they "fill out" the rankings with those teams.

I will give you two examples. Malvern Prep out of Philly was the #1 ranked team in the country a couple of seasons ago and Avon Grove which had a stacked team loses to them in overtime by a single goal and never even gets into the top 20?? How do you lose to the #1 Team and not even get a mention?? Then Malvern Prep goes on and beats a lot of MD and NY teams handily that REMAIN in the top 20? If an MIAA or NY team were to lose to Malvern by a single goal that year they would have shot up in the rankings.

Second example Salesanium which is a Delaware school but has a ton of Philly talent loses to the #1 School in the Country last year Hill School, by a score of 10-9. How to they not appear in the National Rankings?


Salesanium is a very good team. They finished 2016 ranked #63 in the country. They lost to Hill Academy who finished #10. They also lost to Malverne at #17 and Culver at #33. All 3 losses were to quality teams. The problem is that their wins didn't come against highly ranked opponents. Their best win was against Easton Area, and they finished the season ay #82. In order to break into the top 25 they need to play more non-league games against top ranked opponents. That goes with any real ranking system.

Your first example is a lot more irrelevant. Yes, in 2014 Avon Grove lost an early season game to Malverne in OT. And yes, Malverne finished the season #2 behind only Boys Latin. The problem is that they lost their next two games to Central Bucks East and Bishop Shanahan... not exactly dominant programs. Not even ranked in the top 500. A team needs to put together a body of work; they can't be judged on a single lucky game.


There's not a ton of movement nationally in the first few weeks of any season. Can't see how a team can jump into the top 20 by losing to anyone. Win and maybe there's an argument. But losing, even in overtime, isn't going to do it.

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Lets see BL play up at least one grade if not 2 against local clubs like another program had done that were competing with top teams. Then we consider how good they are. At the younger ages having bigger stronger kids can get you by, but not against older teams.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Lets see BL play up at least one grade if not 2 against local clubs like another program had done that were competing with top teams. Then we consider how good they are. At the younger ages having bigger stronger kids can get you by, but not against older teams.


What local teams in 5th grade played up 2 years?

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