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Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Actually it should be called "People who
don't give a fvck about how their actions impact others". Let's call it
what it is.
Perfect comeback....You must be "that" Dad... By the
way to make your point heard more...What club does your kid play for?
Let's compare and figure out why you are so angry


Yes...it was a perfect comeback.

I am from the club that is tired of having to explain to our 13 year olds
why they have to play against 15 year olds, why some people believe that
this is perfectly normal, and why they continue to defend their flawed
logic in spite of overwhelming consensus from the community and increased
scrutiny from the organizing bodies of the sport.
So you come to an anonymous website to stand on your high horse and yell your claims to the world! Way to go Hero!


That adds nothing to the conversation

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Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think that all of this holdback/re-class nonsense is a joke like most here do. Crabs rolling out 6'2" 185lb, 6'1" 215lb "8th graders" is ridiculous.

If re-class is the way to go why don't the Kelly's do it or the McDonogh coach with his boys?


What are you talking about. There are as many holdbacks at Calvert Hall as there are anywhere else. Why do you think FCA has so many? The Kelly's run that organization.

And as far as McDonogh goes, they have more prefirst kids on Crabs teams than any other MIAA school.

Nice try, but you are completely wrong on your assessment.


I was referring to their own children. They play on age. I know that both have holdbacks, particularly McDonogh but Hilgartners and Kellys OWN CHILDREN play on age. Got it now sparky.
You need to stop now....Stop talking about particular kids no this site...BOTC....Way over the line here...
There is a Kelly hold back on the FCA 2022 team...


The kelly boys play up not down which I know is hard for you guys to comprehend

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think that all of this holdback/re-class nonsense is a joke like most here do. Crabs rolling out 6'2" 185lb, 6'1" 215lb "8th graders" is ridiculous.

If re-class is the way to go why don't the Kelly's do it or the McDonogh coach with his boys?


What are you talking about. There are as many holdbacks at Calvert Hall as there are anywhere else. Why do you think FCA has so many? The Kelly's run that organization.

And as far as McDonogh goes, they have more prefirst kids on Crabs teams than any other MIAA school.

Nice try, but you are completely wrong on your assessment.


I was referring to their own children. They play on age. I know that both have holdbacks, particularly McDonogh but Hilgartners and Kellys OWN CHILDREN play on age. Got it now sparky.

Well of course they do not play the hold back game they do not need to. They are the system there kids will be seen. There kids will play in front of anyone there parents want them to play in front of. If your father is a head coach of a college or large private lacrosse school you do not need to cheat. Its like if you played in the NFL your son will get the option to play D1 football no matter how avg a player he is.
Seriously. Obviously your kid does not play basketball in Baltimore...6'2 7th graders are the norm. Just because a kid is big and strong does not mean he is not of age. My kid is constantly being accused of that and it is very annoying......


The Crabs players in question and the FCA defenseman ARE almost 16 in the 8th grade - that is the difference and EVERY TEAM they play knows it.

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Actually it should be called "People who
don't give a fvck about how their actions impact others". Let's call it
what it is.
Perfect comeback....You must be "that" Dad... By the
way to make your point heard more...What club does your kid play for?
Let's compare and figure out why you are so angry


Yes...it was a perfect comeback.

I am from the club that is tired of having to explain to our 13 year olds
why they have to play against 15 year olds, why some people believe that
this is perfectly normal, and why they continue to defend their flawed
logic in spite of overwhelming consensus from the community and increased
scrutiny from the organizing bodies of the sport.


why don't you have your coach or parents of your son's teammates that were held back explain it to them.

btw- up until the change to grade just a few years ago - 8th grade lacrsosse was u15. Meaning you could turn 15 during the fall of that season. So for proceeding 40-50 yrs it was ok to have 13 year olds (that are almost 14) play against kids who turned 15 in the past 5-6 months. The hold back stuff has been in play for decades. Why the hysteria now?

If your 13 year old is having a tough time playing in 2020 elite he should be playing 2020 AA. There are plenty of hold backs on those teams as well. They are just not as good. But the competition and coaching is for the most part excelllent

for the record i'm a different poster than above and my kids are july '00 2018 and may '02 2020 and not crabs


Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
BS...Take a look at the UNC roster and tell me the Kelly's are not holdback's. By the way I have no problem with holdbacks.
Ha...Just did and wala...Holdbacks they are (my best yoda)

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Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Actually it should be called "People who
don't give a fvck about how their actions impact others". Let's call it
what it is.
Perfect comeback....You must be "that" Dad... By the
way to make your point heard more...What club does your kid play for?
Let's compare and figure out why you are so angry


Yes...it was a perfect comeback.

I am from the club that is tired of having to explain to our 13 year olds
why they have to play against 15 year olds, why some people believe that
this is perfectly normal, and why they continue to defend their flawed
logic in spite of overwhelming consensus from the community and increased
scrutiny from the organizing bodies of the sport.


why don't you have your coach or parents of your son's teammates that were held back explain it to them.

btw- up until the change to grade just a few years ago - 8th grade lacrsosse was u15. Meaning you could turn 15 during the fall of that season. So for proceeding 40-50 yrs it was ok to have 13 year olds (that are almost 14) play against kids who turned 15 in the past 5-6 months. The hold back stuff has been in play for decades. Why the hysteria now?

If your 13 year old is having a tough time playing in 2020 elite he should be playing 2020 AA. There are plenty of hold backs on those teams as well. They are just not as good. But the competition and coaching is for the most part excelllent

for the record i'm a different poster than above and my kids are july '00 2018 and may '02 2020 and not crabs

Or play REC

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
BS...Take a look at the UNC roster and tell me the Kelly's are not holdback's. By the way I have no problem with holdbacks.


Only the FOGO is. Turned 19 a few months into senior year of HS. Other 2 on age.

Re: Boys 2020
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The difference being there are 16 year olds on the Crabs 2020 team. Those kids should be in the 10th grade. How many 8th graders do you know that have their driver's license?


Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Actually it should be called "People who
don't give a fvck about how their actions impact others". Let's call it
what it is.
Perfect comeback....You must be "that" Dad... By the
way to make your point heard more...What club does your kid play for?
Let's compare and figure out why you are so angry


Yes...it was a perfect comeback.

I am from the club that is tired of having to explain to our 13 year olds
why they have to play against 15 year olds, why some people believe that
this is perfectly normal, and why they continue to defend their flawed
logic in spite of overwhelming consensus from the community and increased
scrutiny from the organizing bodies of the sport.


why don't you have your coach or parents of your son's teammates that were held back explain it to them.

btw- up until the change to grade just a few years ago - 8th grade lacrsosse was u15. Meaning you could turn 15 during the fall of that season. So for proceeding 40-50 yrs it was ok to have 13 year olds (that are almost 14) play against kids who turned 15 in the past 5-6 months. The hold back stuff has been in play for decades. Why the hysteria now?

If your 13 year old is having a tough time playing in 2020 elite he should be playing 2020 AA. There are plenty of hold backs on those teams as well. They are just not as good. But the competition and coaching is for the most part excelllent

for the record i'm a different poster than above and my kids are july '00 2018 and may '02 2020 and not crabs

Or play REC


By this logic, if a 13 year old can't compete with a 15 year old then he is in the wrong bracket.

When it was U15 a couple of things happened...

Generally, older kids were on the A team, younger kids were on the B team who would then become the A team as the older ones moved on. This was standard practice everywhere.

Teams or kids who had more talent had the option to play up (their choice)- let me know if you need us to explain what that means.

With the move to grade based the option has been taken away and kids are effectively forced to play up, (except the holdbacks who continue to play down). Saying that these kids should play A or B instead merely cascades the problem downward. The net result being that the selfish actions of a small minority have a negative impact on the entire population.






Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think that all of this holdback/re-class nonsense is a joke like most here do. Crabs rolling out 6'2" 185lb, 6'1" 215lb "8th graders" is ridiculous.

If re-class is the way to go why don't the Kelly's do it or the McDonogh coach with his boys?


What are you talking about. There are as many holdbacks at Calvert Hall as there are anywhere else. Why do you think FCA has so many? The Kelly's run that organization.

And as far as McDonogh goes, they have more prefirst kids on Crabs teams than any other MIAA school.

Nice try, but you are completely wrong on your assessment.


I was referring to their own children. They play on age. I know that both have holdbacks, particularly McDonogh but Hilgartners and Kellys OWN CHILDREN play on age. Got it now sparky.

Well of course they do not play the hold back game they do not need to. They are the system there kids will be seen. There kids will play in front of anyone there parents want them to play in front of. If your father is a head coach of a college or large private lacrosse school you do not need to cheat. Its like if you played in the NFL your son will get the option to play D1 football no matter how avg a player he is.


First of all you should not be talking about specific youth players. And second obviously neither one of you know what you are talking about in reference to their children. You must have some agenda. Spreading lies and rumors about players either way doesnt go well.

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Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BS...Take a look at the UNC roster and tell me the Kelly's are not holdback's. By the way I have no problem with holdbacks.
Ha...Just did and wala...Holdbacks they are (my best yoda)


But the guy above said the Kelly's all played up? You mean clubs other than crabs have holdbacks? And that their owners not only advocate holdbacks but their own kids did? This can't be true. The Crabs are gaming the system. RM has single-handedly ruined youth lacrosse. Blah blah blah

Re: Boys 2020
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Get real people. Who do you think writes the big donation checks to US lacrosse? The most influential family in Maryland lacrosse....Give me a break...Why do you think everything went grade based...Don't blame Crabs....

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BS...Take a look at the UNC roster and tell me the Kelly's are not holdback's. By the way I have no problem with holdbacks.
Ha...Just did and wala...Holdbacks they are (my best yoda)


But the guy above said the Kelly's all played up? You mean clubs other than crabs have holdbacks? And that their owners not only advocate holdbacks but their own kids did? This can't be true. The Crabs are gaming the system. RM has single-handedly ruined youth lacrosse. Blah blah blah


Glad you finally understand.

Re: Boys 2020
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Serious question - why did it go grade based? Who is the influential family?


Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Serious question - why did it go grade based? Who is the influential family?

me...because I said so

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Serious question - why did it go grade based? Who is the influential family?



That is a good question. I have wondered where the concept came from, how was it developed.
I would be surprised if they gave up the name of the influential family.

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Serious question - why did it go grade based? Who is the influential family?



That is a good question. I have wondered where the concept came from, how was it developed.
I would be surprised if they gave up the name of the influential family.


I believe it was, in part, to make it easier for college (or HS) coaches to know what they are looking at. When looking at a U-13-U15-U17 they would not know exactly what year the kid was graduating, when looking at 2018, they know.

I don't think anyone envisioned opportunistic people exploiting this the way they have, but here we are.

Re: Boys 2020
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Wow...after I posted this I checked to make sure I had chosen my words correctly, looks perfect to me...

Opportunistic - exploiting opportunities with little regard to principle or consequences

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Get real people. Who do you think writes the big donation checks to US lacrosse? The most influential family in Maryland lacrosse....Give me a break...Why do you think everything went grade based...Don't blame Crabs....


Grade based would have been much different if crabs did not take it as a business opportunity and manipulate the rules in their favor.

Re: Boys 2020
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First world problem, for sure!

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Get real people. Who do you think writes the big donation checks to US lacrosse? The most influential family in Maryland lacrosse....Give me a break...Why do you think everything went grade based...Don't blame Crabs....


I would seriously doubt it is Ryan McClernan, owner of Crabs writing a check to US Lacrosse. He probably is trying to figure out a way to get money from that organization. He is always working on schemes to get other peoples/organizations money into his pocket. Just a very greedy person driven by ego and money.

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wow...after I posted this I checked to make sure I had chosen my words correctly, looks perfect to me...

Opportunistic - exploiting opportunities with little regard to principle or consequences


This fits Ryan McClernan perfectly. Greedy SOB who could care less about anyone or anything other than his own fat [lacrosse]. And when opportunities don't exist he just cheats and forces the issue to his advantage.

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
First world problem, for sure!


With nothing else to say they try to minimize and deflect.

A small group of people, acting in blind self-interest, to the detriment of a much larger group is not a first world problem. Young Bradford having to miss the spring mixer because his team is traveling to a showcase in Boston, that is a first world problem.

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
First world problem, for sure!


With nothing else to say they try to minimize and deflect.

A small group of people, acting in blind self-interest, to the detriment of a much larger group is not a first world problem. Young Bradford having to miss the spring mixer because his team is traveling to a showcase in Boston, that is a first world problem.


Well, I guess your definition of a first world problem is a little different than mine... 8th grade boys playing other 8th grade boys in lacrosse, no matter what their birthdate, is something to be happy about.

My son is not on the Crabs and is not a holdback and does not play elite, I'm really just lurking on this page, but seriously is this the most important thing you need to worry about in your life?

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
First world problem, for sure!


With nothing else to say they try to minimize and deflect.

A small group of people, acting in blind self-interest, to the detriment of a much larger group is not a first world problem. Young Bradford having to miss the spring mixer because his team is traveling to a showcase in Boston, that is a first world problem.


Well, I guess your definition of a first world problem is a little different than mine... 8th grade boys playing other 8th grade boys in lacrosse, no matter what their birthdate, is something to be happy about.

My son is not on the Crabs and is not a holdback and does not play elite, I'm really just lurking on this page, but seriously is this the most important thing you need to worry about in your life?


Certainly not, but that does not mean that we should just ignore it, that's what they are hoping for.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."- Edmund Burke

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
First world problem, for sure!


With nothing else to say they try to minimize and deflect.

A small group of people, acting in blind self-interest, to the detriment of a much larger group is not a first world problem. Young Bradford having to miss the spring mixer because his team is traveling to a showcase in Boston, that is a first world problem.


Well, I guess your definition of a first world problem is a little different than mine... 8th grade boys playing other 8th grade boys in lacrosse, no matter what their birthdate, is something to be happy about.

My son is not on the Crabs and is not a holdback and does not play elite, I'm really just lurking on this page, but seriously is this the most important thing you need to worry about in your life?


By your logic ..unless life or death..Dont worry be happy!
Most of the posters here are not very happy YOUTH lacrosse is giving a select few players an advantage over others. This is being promoted by Certain Clubs with NO cares about its effect on all of lacrosse. As time goes on you will see more and more of this as many parents are always looking for an edge for their child.Youth sports isnt supposed to be this way. I guess you dont care if all youth sports goes down this route??

Re: Boys 2020
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Next time your around a Crab parent as them how old their holdback son is and they without a doubt answer - he is a 2020. Deep down even they know what they are doing is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Get real people. Who do you think writes the big donation checks to US lacrosse? The most influential family in Maryland lacrosse....Give me a break...Why do you think everything went grade based...Don't blame Crabs....


Grade based would have been much different if crabs did not take it as a business opportunity and manipulate the rules in their favor.


Crabs was one of the last clubs to go grade based. Keep making up lies.

Re: Boys 2020
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Get real people. Who do you think writes the big donation checks to US lacrosse? The most influential family in Maryland lacrosse....Give me a break...Why do you think everything went grade based...Don't blame Crabs....


Grade based would have been much different if crabs did not take it as a business opportunity and manipulate the rules in their favor.


Crabs was one of the last clubs to go grade based. Keep making up lies.
. That is pure bullsh*t. You, bunky boy are making up the lies, but again typical for Crab dads.

Re: Boys 2020
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Crabs one of the las teams to go grade based - sure. The sad thing about this comment is that that you believe your own lies. Crabs are without a doubt the biggest offender of the holdback scheme. Every parent, player and coach is complicit in their scam. 16 year olds should not be on an 8th grade lacrosse team. You can say your man child graduates in 2020 - but everyone knows the truth. Meanwhile the fat crab counts his money.

Re: Boys 2020
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Okay, I get it. The Crabs are the biggest offenders of re-classing. (I use the term re-class because I'm only disturbed by the parents who do this late in middle school to gain an athletic advantage.) Crabs are clearly bigger, stronger, and faster at many positions. I know they have re-classed boys, double holdbacks, etc. You know it, they know it, the boys on all teams know it, EVERYONE knows it! So if we agree it exists AND we have no control over it, can we PUHLEEZE move onto some other topic? This completely disappears next year.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Okay, I get it. The Crabs are the biggest offenders of re-classing. (I use the term re-class because I'm only disturbed by the parents who do this late in middle school to gain an athletic advantage.) Crabs are clearly bigger, stronger, and faster at many positions. I know they have re-classed boys, double holdbacks, etc. You know it, they know it, the boys on all teams know it, EVERYONE knows it! So if we agree it exists AND we have no control over it, can we PUHLEEZE move onto some other topic? This completely disappears next year.


Where is it going next year? Still grade based. Won't change just because USL put out guidelines no one will follow.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Okay, I get it. The Crabs are the biggest offenders of re-classing. (I use the term re-class because I'm only disturbed by the parents who do this late in middle school to gain an athletic advantage.) Crabs are clearly bigger, stronger, and faster at many positions. I know they have re-classed boys, double holdbacks, etc. You know it, they know it, the boys on all teams know it, EVERYONE knows it! So if we agree it exists AND we have no control over it, can we PUHLEEZE move onto some other topic? This completely disappears next year.

Well it does not disappear next year. All the parents of the non reclassed kids will see there sons grow 2 or 3 inches and gain 20 pounds. And it will hit you and you will see more clear how bad the reclass kids where cheating you and your son the year before.

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Sorry, I should have been clearer. When I wrote "disappear", I meant that the boys will be in H.S. competing to get on JV/Varsity teams where they will no doubt have to play against older bigger boys.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry, I should have been clearer. When I wrote "disappear", I meant that the boys will be in H.S. competing to get on JV/Varsity teams where they will no doubt have to play against older bigger boys.


That's next year, everyone knows that going in, and the boys will have another year Yo develop, hopefully evening things out somewhat. So what's your point?


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I'll just point you back to my original post. Everyone knows Crabs has the most re-classed boys, there's nothing anyone can do it about, so let's talk about something else. The incessant "Crabs are cheaters" thread is not that interesting and moot in 6 or 9 months. If others want to continue it, it's up to them. I'm done reading or posting if that's the consensus.

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The problem is this does not go away until the parents of the kids who play youth sports let the powers that be know they are tired of organizations manipulating the system. I would bet my life that if HOCO goes aged based Crabs won't be in it.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The problem is this does not go away until the parents of the kids who play youth sports let the powers that be know they are tired of organizations manipulating the system. I would bet my life that if HOCO goes aged based Crabs won't be in it.


And neither will any of the other top clubs. They will just start a new version of the NPYLL.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'll just point you back to my original post. Everyone knows Crabs has the most re-classed boys, there's nothing anyone can do it about, so let's talk about something else. The incessant "Crabs are cheaters" thread is not that interesting and moot in 6 or 9 months. If others want to continue it, it's up to them. I'm done reading or posting if that's the consensus.


OK, thanks. C'ya

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NPYLL didn't work out so well this year - good luck with that.....

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