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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152128 02/24/16 06:28 PM
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It's not about the 9th grade players committing early and the consequences of a 14-15 yo picking a college. It's about mom and dad standing under the club team tent, after having spent thousands of dollars, feeling like their investment paid off. They can puff their chest out and say, "you're just jealous your late bloomer can't go to Hopkins." And why would the club directors counsel them to wait? They can't wait to list it on their website to get more suckers in the pipeline as early as possible. Whole process is whacked.

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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152130 02/24/16 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jackstraw
I know the NCAA Div 1 season is still quite young, but there have been some stunning upsets by mid-majors over two well established ACC teams.

UVA 11 HPU 12 Hofstra (LI's Univ.) 10 UNC 5 Also- Harvard with two one goal wins. Ohio St 9 UMass 16 --- Loyola 9 Hopkins 8

Is this an example of the demise of early recruiting? UVA UNC and JHU are 3 of the most aggressive early recruiters. Are the 8th grade club studs getting beaten by kids that get recruited in 10th, 11th or even 12th grade? Are the late bloomers the ones that ultimately do better once they get to Div 1? I doubt High Pt, Hofstra or Loyola get 9th graders to commit to their progs.




on the other side of the coin Drexel coach Voelker has been vocal in his refusal to early recruit and it is commendable, but they lost to UVA 14 - 7. making the argument that early recruiting is so bad one would think that with the later recruiting they would do better, I am not for or against early recruiting but you need to look at both sides.

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Re: Early Recruiting
America's Game #152135 02/24/16 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not really directly on topic, but Loyola very recently won the national title (2012) before the early recruiting kicked in,so the hounds playing even with and beating JHU should not be a shocker when Hopkins hasn't won it all since 2007.

So it wasn't really working all that great before early recruiting either.



Early recruiting has been around for a very long time. Most of the top players knew where they were going even back in the day by 11th grade. It's the publicity of early recruiting that's the phenomenon that we are seeing. This is all due to the Internet, social media, and coverage of the game. The 9th and 10th grade recruiting is new, this is changing the game but not really hurting it.


Share a sideline with the parents. Early recruiting is hurting the game because its not a team game anymore. Gotta get mine

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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152139 02/24/16 07:39 PM
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Of course Drexel is against early recruiting. Schools like Drexel don't have the pedigree that let's say the Ivys, Hopkins, Duke, and Virginia have so they don't get the pick of the litter. Things is with more players playing and only 12.6 Scholarships there will be enough talented players to go around. Also with the schools that do fill their rosters up early they often overlook very good players in 9th and 10th grade because the haven't reached their potential yet. The thing is some of these early recruits might have reached their max potential in 9th grade and now everyone else is passing them.

As for Loyola they caught lightning in a bottle that season. The stars aligned and they won their title. Won't happen for a while the way they did it.

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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152140 02/24/16 07:39 PM
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Loyola beating Hopkins is not a major upset. Hopkins should have lost to Navy. Loyola is legit and will be around come May.

Hofstra always comes up with a big regular season win and then disappears come the end of the season. IMO UNC really needs to start looking at their coaching staff, with the talent they stockpile every year its bewildering that they havent made a final four in forever it seems.

Virginia appears to be on a downward slide and one can only wonder if the game is starting to pass Starsia by. They can get any recruit they want for the most part so I dont think early recruiting is their only issue.


Although I am not am early recruiting advocate I think there are different forces at work here as well. I think there is so much talent out there now that parity was inevitable. Coaches have expanded their recruiting to non traditional markets and kids from all over are starting to play and excel at the game.

I think a fascinating study would be to look at a Top 5 lax program and look at their impact players. Look at when they verballed and where they played high school and club lacrosse and see if any patterns emerge.

Having said all that, does anyone here believe that this years final four will be dramatically different than years past? I think come May the same top programs will be at the final four . Looking at the last 5 years, the same teams end up playing on championship weekend so Im really not sure how that proves or disproves the theory that early recruiting is hurting the sport. It will be fascinating to see what happens over the next few years and if any changes are made.

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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152142 02/24/16 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jackstraw
Originally Posted by America's Game
Here is what I said in the 2016 College thread.


In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parity in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.



this says it all.... Paul Rabil didn't play until 7th grade. Rob Pannel was a late bloomer. I am sure that there are many more examples...


To be fair, Rabil and Pannell are both freaks of nature. Not fair to compare them to regular humans

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Re: Early Recruiting
Anonymous #152148 02/24/16 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Originally Posted by America's Game
Here is what I said in the 2016 College thread.


In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parity in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.



this says it all.... Paul Rabil didn't play until 7th grade. Rob Pannel was a late bloomer. I am sure that there are many more examples...


To be fair, Rabil and Pannell are both freaks of nature. Not fair to compare them to regular humans


Rabil is a physical specimen, yes. He's not the first one either but he has embraced his stardom better than most and as a result has launched himself into the limelight of a sport that is begging for a superstar. Someone that can put lacrosse on the map.

As for Pannel what makes you call him a freak. He was recruited to play at Quinnipiac decided to PG and went to Cornell. He's basically the Rudy of lacrosse. He's 5 foot nothing weighs a hundred and nothing and is considered one of the best to play the game. He also has grasped the limelight and is a charismatic figure in the lacrosse world.

Another person that is doing great things for lacrosse is The Beast Greg Gurenlion. It's personalities like these we need at the helme of lacrosse to help it grow. There were many before but these are the guys now doing it in the world of social media and blazing a trail.

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Re: Early Recruiting
Anonymous #152149 02/24/16 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It's not about the 9th grade players committing early and the consequences of a 14-15 yo picking a college. It's about mom and dad standing under the club team tent, after having spent thousands of dollars, feeling like their investment paid off. They can puff their chest out and say, "you're just jealous your late bloomer can't go to Hopkins." And why would the club directors counsel them to wait? They can't wait to list it on their website to get more suckers in the pipeline as early as possible. Whole process is whacked.



i guess i am missing your point. you are annoyed because some people want to pretend they are better?

isn't that what some people do in all aspects of life? Avoid them and move on...has nothing to do with early recruiting...

example, if boy down the street was committed verbally to Harvard, but told no one, would you or anyone else care?

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Re: Early Recruiting
Anonymous #152150 02/24/16 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not really directly on topic, but Loyola very recently won the national title (2012) before the early recruiting kicked in,so the hounds playing even with and beating JHU should not be a shocker when Hopkins hasn't won it all since 2007.

So it wasn't really working all that great before early recruiting either.



Early recruiting has been around for a very long time. Most of the top players knew where they were going even back in the day by 11th grade. It's the publicity of early recruiting that's the phenomenon that we are seeing. This is all due to the Internet, social media, and coverage of the game. The 9th and 10th grade recruiting is new, this is changing the game but not really hurting it.


Share a sideline with the parents. Early recruiting is hurting the game because its not a team game anymore. Gotta get mine


Really, i gotta get mine is the attitude ?

Two boys and one girl-one in college (d-3 at great school) and two in process, one of which is an early commit to d-1 with $. if you are on the team you describe-my advice-leave and find another. we have been lucky i suppose and the kids are there to play and enjoy and have fun. when the fun is gone-move on...

now, if you go to maverick or jake reed, that attitude is to be expected...

good luck


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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152154 02/24/16 08:36 PM
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Pannell is a freak of a lacrosse player, just a rare and special talent and happens to be an exceptional athlete. (oh and Rudy had absolutely no physical gifts or special athletic ability, just the heart of a lion)

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Re: Early Recruiting
Anonymous #152165 02/24/16 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Pannell is a freak of a lacrosse player, just a rare and special talent and happens to be an exceptional athlete. (oh and Rudy had absolutely no physical gifts or special athletic ability, just the heart of a lion)


I wasn't knocking Pannell. I said he is one of the faces of lacrosse and one of the best to play the game. Rudy is my all-time favorite movie. Like you said the character in the movie exemplified heart. Rob is considered one of the best to play but his path to get there wasn't a typical one. Think about it he wasn't wooed and picked up by a Duke or even Cornell right out of school. He did what worked for him. Now if you lined up Perkovic ND, Jones Duke, Rabil and Pannell. Odds are Pannell would be the last guy picked. Yet he tore it up on the lacrosse field. In his own words" I was never the fastest, strongest, biggest, or most dominating figure" "I matured physically from junior to senior year from 5'6 to 5'9 165 to 185" (lacrosse magazine 2012)

Last edited by America's Game; 02/24/16 09:37 PM.
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Re: Early Recruiting
America's Game #152168 02/24/16 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Pannell is a freak of a lacrosse player, just a rare and special talent and happens to be an exceptional athlete. (oh and Rudy had absolutely no physical gifts or special athletic ability, just the heart of a lion)


I wasn't knocking Pannell. I said he is one of the faces of lacrosse and one of the best to play the game. Rudy is my all-time favorite movie. Like you said the character in the movie exemplified heart. Rob is considered one of the best to play but his path to get there wasn't a typical one. Think about it here wasn't wooed and picked up by a Duke or even Cornell right out of school. He did what worked for him. Now if you lined up Perkovic ND, Jones Duke, Rabil and Pannell. Odds are Pannell would be the last guy picked. Yet he tore it up on the lacrosse field. In his own words" I was never the fastest, strongest, biggest, or most dominating figure" "I matured physically from junior to senior year from 5'6 to 5'9 165 to 185" (lacrosse magazine 2012)


To take your point further, I have heard many D1 coaches state they hold spots for the late bloomers and kids they may have missed. They may be stockpiling kids early but they arent discounting the late bloomers or kids that went under the radar. The 2017 class has had several kids switch their commitments from mid and lower D1 programs to Top 10 programs and I may be wrong here but I think thats the way it has always been. Although I think early recruiting is an issue, I just think its the fact that their are so many talented kids playing now and the mid and lower level schools are scooping them up and becoming competitive.

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Re: Early Recruiting
America's Game #152173 02/24/16 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Pannell is a freak of a lacrosse player, just a rare and special talent and happens to be an exceptional athlete. (oh and Rudy had absolutely no physical gifts or special athletic ability, just the heart of a lion)


I wasn't knocking Pannell. I said he is one of the faces of lacrosse and one of the best to play the game. Rudy is my all-time favorite movie. Like you said the character in the movie exemplified heart. Rob is considered one of the best to play but his path to get there wasn't a typical one. Think about it he wasn't wooed and picked up by a Duke or even Cornell right out of school. He did what worked for him. Now if you lined up Perkovic ND, Jones Duke, Rabil and Pannell. Odds are Pannell would be the last guy picked. Yet he tore it up on the lacrosse field. In his own words" I was never the fastest, strongest, biggest, or most dominating figure" "I matured physically from junior to senior year from 5'6 to 5'9 165 to 185" (lacrosse magazine 2012)


But, the oldest....

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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152250 02/25/16 11:39 AM
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per Ty Xanders--- the 100th 2019 just committed. 100 public commits by Feb of their freshman years! How many have committed but have not made it public yet? Md has like 12 kids already.

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Re: Early Recruiting
jackstraw #152273 02/25/16 01:12 PM
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With the exception of the kids from Texas and Florida, most haven't even played a high school game yet.

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