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#152046 - 02/24/16 11:47 AM Early Recruiting  
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I know the NCAA Div 1 season is still quite young, but there have been some stunning upsets by mid-majors over two well established ACC teams.

UVA 11 HPU 12 Hofstra (LI's Univ.) 10 UNC 5 Also- Harvard with two one goal wins. Ohio St 9 UMass 16 --- Loyola 9 Hopkins 8

Is this an example of the demise of early recruiting? UVA UNC and JHU are 3 of the most aggressive early recruiters. Are the 8th grade club studs getting beaten by kids that get recruited in 10th, 11th or even 12th grade? Are the late bloomers the ones that ultimately do better once they get to Div 1? I doubt High Pt, Hofstra or Loyola get 9th graders to commit to their progs.



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#152063 - 02/24/16 01:14 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: jackstraw]  

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Early recruiting is killing this sport. But people will come on here and think your jealous because your kid is not getting recruiting yet in 9th grade. Late bloomers in many cases catch up. Early bloomers in terms of growth look like studs now because they are men playing with boys. Seen it time and time again an early bloomer bypassing that early matured kid.

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#152067 - 02/24/16 01:35 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: jackstraw]  

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Its causing parity which is good.
Kids playing for UVA where mostly recruited in 9th Grade
Kids now playing with high point were recruited in 10th/11th
And the Winner is? Schools like High Point
The LOSERS The schools and coaches of these so called top programs.
They recruit a 9th Grade Hold Back because he's dominating. Now 4 years later, It all evens out, and some kids just pass them by.
Those programs that recruit too early are getting exactly what they deserve

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#152069 - 02/24/16 01:38 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: Anonymous]  
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Here is what I said in the 2016 College thread.


In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parody in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.

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#152070 - 02/24/16 01:45 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: America's Game]  

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This is from a girls coach, but the message is the same for either gender:


February 24, 2016

Early Recruiting: Seeing It from the Other Side


By Sue Stimmel, Associate Head Lacrosse Coach at Upper Arlington High School

After more than 25 years as a college coach and athlete, I began teaching high school mathematics and coaching high school lacrosse. When recruiting for a Division I collegiate lacrosse program, I thought I understood high school students. After 4 years as a high school teacher/coach, I have concluded I really did not have a clear picture at all!
Photo courtesy of the author.Photo courtesy of the author.
Kids and High Schools Do Not Benefit from Early Recruiting

If you spend time daily with high school freshmen, you would determine quickly that they are clueless about high school, social development, individual identity… even personal hygiene. They want to be independent, yet need an overwhelming amount of guidance and direction. The maturity observed between underclassmen and upperclassmen is stunning. Their bodies change. They begin to have an idea of who they are and who they want to be. Seniors often reflect on decisions/things they did as an underclassman and laugh. The best part of teaching seniors, especially those I also taught as freshmen and sophomores, is the ability to see how they have evolved individually and to be able to have more mature and candid discussions. And even interacting with seniors, I realize how naive they still are. I feel early recruiting is bad because kids need time to grow without developmentally inappropriate external pressures. They are not ready!

In addition to these pressures, early recruiting discourages multi-sport participation, resulting in less well rounded athletes, specialization in one sport, and overuse injuries. Early recruiting also introduces a social dynamic to high school teams that focuses on individual performance. This is a time when kids should be learning to work with others, learning to deal with adversity, and forming lifelong friendships.

Parents Do Not Benefit from Early Recruiting

Communities that offer a wide array of athletic opportunities for young children are good for physical and psychological development. However, specialization at an early age through year round travel teams and camps creates a financial burden. This may also create emotional stress on the parent/child relationship. Even in conversations with parents who have had older children go through the college decision process without athletic involvement, they report feeling much more overwhelmed. They feel pressured to visit multiple colleges to create early interest and to make significant decisions without all the desired information, fearing their window of opportunity may close. The timing of these visits supersede family, academics, and athletic schedules. A well rounded student-athlete needs a balanced academic and social experience in addition to athletics. Early recruiting creates unnecessary pressure at a time when balance is already difficult to achieve.

Colleges Do Not Benefit from Early Recruiting

The IWLCA submitted two recruiting legislative proposals to the NCAA, addressing concerns about early recruiting. Support of this proposed legislation is important for collegiate recruiters. In my opinion, the potential negative effect on the individual athlete, family, and high school far outweighs the perceived benefits of early recruiting. Early recruiting is likely to result in recruited athletes who are not vested in the decision but lack the maturity to navigate subsequent change. With early specialization, I am seeing more and more overuse injuries at the high school level. Because of this students are more likely to arrive on campus with chronic injuries. Others may arrive burned out. College coaches are more likely to miss economically disadvantaged kids, who cannot afford camps, visits, and travel teams. Late bloomers are heavily penalized. College coaches are forced to make decisions without knowing the dynamics of a future team. This creates a false sense of security for both athletes and coaches because significant change in four years is inevitable.

In the past high school athletes played multiple sports for fun. By the time they were looking at colleges, if they excelled at one of their sports they went on to play at the next level. Exceptional athletes received scholarships. However, at some point playing in middle/high school became a means to an end. When I ask high school athletes why they quit a sport, many reply because they do not want to play in college or that they are not good enough to play in college. When did one become a vehicle for the other?

There are so many things that are great about scholastic athletics, but early recruiting is not one of them. It creates external pressures that are subversive to healthy adolescent development. No one wins.

Sue Stimmel is currently a math teacher at Franklin Heights High School and the Associate Head Lacrosse Coach at Upper Arlington High School, the 2013 and 2015 State Champions. She coached collegiately for 21 years, including 15 as the head coach at the Ohio State University.

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#152076 - 02/24/16 02:10 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: America's Game]  
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Originally Posted by America's Game
Here is what I said in the 2016 College thread.


In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parity in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.



this says it all.... Paul Rabil didn't play until 7th grade. Rob Pannel was a late bloomer. I am sure that there are many more examples...

Last edited by America's Game; 02/24/16 02:39 PM.
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#152079 - 02/24/16 02:22 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: jackstraw]  

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Originally Posted by jackstraw
Originally Posted by America's Game
Here is what I said in the 2016 College thread.


In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parity in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.


your right ..Lax has become a PARODY...but I like to think there is PARITY....

this says it all.... Paul Rabil didn't play until 7th grade. Rob Pannel was a late bloomer. I am sure that there are many more examples...

Last edited by America's Game; 02/24/16 03:56 PM.
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#152081 - 02/24/16 02:28 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: jackstraw]  

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I'm sure a lot of the best players now were the best players back in 4th grade also

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#152084 - 02/24/16 02:38 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: Anonymous]  
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Originally Posted by America's Game
Here is what I said in the 2016 College thread.


In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parity in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.


your right ..Lax has become a PARODY...but I like to think there is PARITY....

this says it all.... Paul Rabil didn't play until 7th grade. Rob Pannel was a late bloomer. I am sure that there are many more examples...
Thanks for the corrections. I meant parity but sometimes spell check has its own mind. I still believe everyone got the gist of what I was saying.

Last edited by America's Game; 02/24/16 02:40 PM.
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#152091 - 02/24/16 03:05 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: America's Game]  

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everyone on both sides of this debate paints with too broad a brush...some athletes will be late bloomers, some athletes will always be the best-not because they are bigger than the other 7th graders (that is the holdback trap) because they have natural physical abilities that other people don't have.

if a college coach recruits a young kid, why do the others who weren't recruited care? If a college coach doesn't recruit any young kids, why does anyone care?

early recruiting has been going on for years in many sports, lax just seeing it now because the sport has more visibility than ever before.

for the record, both hofstra and loyola recruited and verbally committed 9th graders last year.

the clear advantage will be with the early recruited kid that continues to be the stud. he or she will have more leverage entering 11th grade and be able to get more $ from some other great school...

the rest of the argument or debate is pointless and silly. parents and kids that want to be recruited early-for whatever reason, will chase the dream. parents and kids that don't think it is a wise move, will simply wait. why anyone seems to think it is the downfall of lax is beyond me.

the game is expanding, not shrinking. more d-1 teams...but no professional game so why comment on decisions of others? unless of course you wanted your kid to be recruited and he or she wasn't...





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#152103 - 02/24/16 03:36 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: jackstraw]  

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See the tough guy dad who has to say the ones complaining are the kids not getting recruited. No it's many people who love the game and now see the craziness of holdbacks, early recruiting and travel programs making hand over fists. It's not growing the game it's ruining it.

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#152108 - 02/24/16 04:04 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: Anonymous]  
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm sure a lot of the best players now were the best players back in 4th grade also


Good players in fourth grade? What truly defines a good player in 4th grade?

It's my opinion that if a player has had good training he can be a standout in 4th grade. This used to be the children of past collegiate players, the younger sibling of a player etc. As time has gone by now everyone is dreaming of their kid playing college ball and as a result kids are being introduced to the game at a very young age. There will be less dominant 4th graders because so many are playing the game. What will eventually happen is the athlete who is a standout athlete who truly loves the game and is playing because they love it and it's not mom or dad's dream will separate themselves from the pack. With so many people now playing the sport is growing and as a result more colleges can field competitive teams.

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#152110 - 02/24/16 04:08 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: Anonymous]  
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
everyone on both sides of this debate paints with too broad a brush...some athletes will be late bloomers, some athletes will always be the best-not because they are bigger than the other 7th graders (that is the holdback trap) because they have natural physical abilities that other people don't have.

if a college coach recruits a young kid, why do the others who weren't recruited care? If a college coach doesn't recruit any young kids, why does anyone care?

early recruiting has been going on for years in many sports, lax just seeing it now because the sport has more visibility than ever before.

for the record, both hofstra and loyola recruited and verbally committed 9th graders last year.

the clear advantage will be with the early recruited kid that continues to be the stud. he or she will have more leverage entering 11th grade and be able to get more $ from some other great school...

the rest of the argument or debate is pointless and silly. parents and kids that want to be recruited early-for whatever reason, will chase the dream. parents and kids that don't think it is a wise move, will simply wait. why anyone seems to think it is the downfall of lax is beyond me.

the game is expanding, not shrinking. more d-1 teams...but no professional game so why comment on decisions of others? unless of course you wanted your kid to be recruited and he or she wasn't...



I think you make some very valid points. Athletes are athletes yes but at a very young age athletic ability is truly not reached until puberty. Yes yhere are the kids who just have it, and will always have it. That it factor can not be taught. The athlete who is playing with other players his age that has hit puberty or matured more quickly will of course stand out. I don't think people have an issue with the early recruiting aspects I think that people have an issue with the so-called old guard not doing as well as they normally do because of early recruiting failures. Look at the teams that have been early recruiters Virginia, Hopkins, and Syracuse, they have not done that well for them. These schools will always get interest from the best players but they are taking a risk on taking players in 8th 9th and maybe even 10th grade. When their roster slots are full this leaves room for other teams like High Point and other colleges to get great players that might have not fully matured until 11 or 12 grade and were passed over. Not all great players play for great teams either so they don't go to the best showcases or tournaments. As a result they are not seen maybe until later on in high school. The expansion of the game is great. Makes for really exciting Saturday lacrosse.

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#152115 - 02/24/16 04:34 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: jackstraw]  

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Not really directly on topic, but Loyola very recently won the national title (2012) before the early recruiting kicked in,so the hounds playing even with and beating JHU should not be a shocker when Hopkins hasn't won it all since 2007.

So it wasn't really working all that great before early recruiting either.

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#152121 - 02/24/16 04:57 PM Re: Early Recruiting [Re: Anonymous]  
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not really directly on topic, but Loyola very recently won the national title (2012) before the early recruiting kicked in,so the hounds playing even with and beating JHU should not be a shocker when Hopkins hasn't won it all since 2007.

So it wasn't really working all that great before early recruiting either.



Early recruiting has been around for a very long time. Most of the top players knew where they were going even back in the day by 11th grade. It's the publicity of early recruiting that's the phenomenon that we are seeing. This is all due to the Internet, social media, and coverage of the game. The 9th and 10th grade recruiting is new, this is changing the game but not really hurting it.

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