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Originally Posted by America's Game
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Originally Posted by The Hop
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That's exactly what the problem is! Most high school coaches are political,and only help who they want to help. I heard there are some school districts that are being invested SE,SW, Manhasset, along with the AD's Regarding abuse of their power. How do they sleep at night? Why were they rehired? They are ruining the sport for these boys. These men are abusive! Over the years complaints have been put in and superintendents have left. Finally they are being investigated. Let's put the fun back in the game. If anyone gets the opportunity to watch a game take notes how the stats are padded for certain players.


Really?? What investigation?? What proof do you have??

Many, many HS coaches are outstanding and help kids with recruiting far more than clubs do.

Maybe we should investigate you. Your accusations are disgusting and possibly you should finally be revealed as the hypochondriac you are.

Take your meds and go watch a butterfly for a few hours. Relax.



such inspiring words of wisdom. There are some good high school coaches but they cant do it without club teams. The training pales in comparison.


Really??????
The high school coaches have been doing a fine job of it without help from any club coaches up until about 10 years ago.
Hogh School and College lacrosse didn't just start in the last 10-15 years.
But now the clubs convinced people to pay them big bucks for the same thing the the high school coaches were doing as part of their job for a long, long time.



You're a clown. Look at the #s. College Lacrosse recruiting has gone up 10 fold since the club teams have been in existence. 15 years ago 1 or 2 kids maybe got the nod to move to College ball, now 5-10 kids are getting that opportunity. Why do you think when you read an up and coming players bio it has a section that says Club Team? You are either a coach or an assistant with your opinion. Learn what's going on around you before making statements. A few HS coaches are good, but most are there for a paycheck and to give a select few opportunities. Oh and by the way check the last posters comments; HS coaches opening up their own clinics to rake in the $ they don't want club teams to get? These guys turned what was once a free sport to learn at the town level, now into their own personal money grab. Those guys are what's ruining the sport not club teams who you know going into it will cost money. Now High school coaches have Lacrosse companies with some BS initials and they bring their friends in to coach and everyone fills their piggy bank. Keep believing in them though, too funny.


You forget to take your pills. Are you really that blinded by all the club bs. I have been around this game for over 40years and am proud to call some of the best players to ever play the game my friends. FYI the big club phenomenon has been around for I believe 12 years and that's Express. There are others that have been around longer but they didn't take it to the next level. Before all these youth clubs there was North Hempstead, Harveys and a few others that fielded teams where ex college players played and that's where the Saints Lizards and other LI Pro and Semi Pro teams evolved from. As for the college recruiting scene before the clubs there were always good players and they were always found. The clubs used to be for the elite players but when it became a business and all businesses are in it to make money you have theses clubs selling the BS that this team is an AA team and that team is an A team and so on down the line. This is all to get people who are chasing the dream to shell out more and more money for more training for more privates and everything else under the sun. College coaches will always find the best players for their teams regardless of where they play Town ball or Travel. A stud is a stud on any field. So please go sell your Kool-Aid somewhere else. It might work on the uneducated and newbies but it doesn't work here.

As for coaches doing extra to make their own high school teams better isn't that developing their team. The more a team plays together the better the more cohesive they are. Yes it is a job and if they don't do well they lose that job. So now we say they are taking advantage of the players and parents. Well if they don't do the extra then the parents complain they are not doing enough and get them fired.


Thank you. Another person that can see through the hype.

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Training is training. Shooting wallball and other types of skill training done by the right person and applied in game situations is all it takes for some. There are natural athletes and then there are those made into athletes. Not saying one is better or worse than the other. One tends to burn out and it's usually the latter of the two. I understand getting exposed to the right people is important but it used to not be about the money but the real love of the game. Mentors used to pass on their knowledge now businessmen pass it on for the all mighty $. That's why there is no honor left on the game reclassifying, pg years, hold backs etc. All about winning not the tradition.

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Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.


But is the hype really necessary? My older boys graduated in 2010 and 2012 and both played in college, one for a D1 program and one for a D2 program and neither played club ball. My youngest is in high school now and not playing club ball either and I am sure he will find a good school and play lacrosse when he graduates.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.


But is the hype really necessary? My older boys graduated in 2010 and 2012 and both played in college, one for a D1 program and one for a D2 program and neither played club ball. My youngest is in high school now and not playing club ball either and I am sure he will find a good school and play lacrosse when he graduates.


he probably will especially with a legacy ahead of him. sounds like you are in a good district. some more than others need the club ball.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.


But is the hype really necessary? My older boys graduated in 2010 and 2012 and both played in college, one for a D1 program and one for a D2 program and neither played club ball. My youngest is in high school now and not playing club ball either and I am sure he will find a good school and play lacrosse when he graduates.


Your kids are the exception. The elite athletes, and most skilled players will always have opportunities to play, f they want to. However, most kids are B players and probably need the club teams to keep improving their game, and to get the most possible exposure, connections, etc.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.


But is the hype really necessary? My older boys graduated in 2010 and 2012 and both played in college, one for a D1 program and one for a D2 program and neither played club ball. My youngest is in high school now and not playing club ball either and I am sure he will find a good school and play lacrosse when he graduates.


Don't be so sure. Lacrosse recruiting has changed dramatically since your son's graduated. Yes I said dramatically over the past 4 years.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.


But is the hype really necessary? My older boys graduated in 2010 and 2012 and both played in college, one for a D1 program and one for a D2 program and neither played club ball. My youngest is in high school now and not playing club ball either and I am sure he will find a good school and play lacrosse when he graduates.


Don't be so sure. Lacrosse recruiting has changed dramatically since your son's graduated. Yes I said dramatically over the past 4 years.


We will see. I am not really concerned with him playing for a "lacrosse powerhouse". More concerned with him getting into a good school of his choice that will ofer what he wants to study. He can play lacrosee anytime but his education is what is important. After college if he wants to continue to play for fun in a mens league no one is going to ask him what college he played for.

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Originally Posted by America's Game
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by The Hop
Originally Posted by Anonymous
That's exactly what the problem is! Most high school coaches are political,and only help who they want to help. I heard there are some school districts that are being invested SE,SW, Manhasset, along with the AD's Regarding abuse of their power. How do they sleep at night? Why were they rehired? They are ruining the sport for these boys. These men are abusive! Over the years complaints have been put in and superintendents have left. Finally they are being investigated. Let's put the fun back in the game. If anyone gets the opportunity to watch a game take notes how the stats are padded for certain players.


Really?? What investigation?? What proof do you have??

Many, many HS coaches are outstanding and help kids with recruiting far more than clubs do.

Maybe we should investigate you. Your accusations are disgusting and possibly you should finally be revealed as the hypochondriac you are.

Take your meds and go watch a butterfly for a few hours. Relax.



such inspiring words of wisdom. There are some good high school coaches but they cant do it without club teams. The training pales in comparison.


Really??????
The high school coaches have been doing a fine job of it without help from any club coaches up until about 10 years ago.
Hogh School and College lacrosse didn't just start in the last 10-15 years.
But now the clubs convinced people to pay them big bucks for the same thing the the high school coaches were doing as part of their job for a long, long time.



You're a clown. Look at the #s. College Lacrosse recruiting has gone up 10 fold since the club teams have been in existence. 15 years ago 1 or 2 kids maybe got the nod to move to College ball, now 5-10 kids are getting that opportunity. Why do you think when you read an up and coming players bio it has a section that says Club Team? You are either a coach or an assistant with your opinion. Learn what's going on around you before making statements. A few HS coaches are good, but most are there for a paycheck and to give a select few opportunities. Oh and by the way check the last posters comments; HS coaches opening up their own clinics to rake in the $ they don't want club teams to get? These guys turned what was once a free sport to learn at the town level, now into their own personal money grab. Those guys are what's ruining the sport not club teams who you know going into it will cost money. Now High school coaches have Lacrosse companies with some BS initials and they bring their friends in to coach and everyone fills their piggy bank. Keep believing in them though, too funny.


You forget to take your pills. Are you really that blinded by all the club bs. I have been around this game for over 40years and am proud to call some of the best players to ever play the game my friends. FYI the big club phenomenon has been around for I believe 12 years and that's Express. There are others that have been around longer but they didn't take it to the next level. Before all these youth clubs there was North Hempstead, Harveys and a few others that fielded teams where ex college players played and that's where the Saints Lizards and other LI Pro and Semi Pro teams evolved from. As for the college recruiting scene before the clubs there were always good players and they were always found. The clubs used to be for the elite players but when it became a business and all businesses are in it to make money you have theses clubs selling the BS that this team is an AA team and that team is an A team and so on down the line. This is all to get people who are chasing the dream to shell out more and more money for more training for more privates and everything else under the sun. College coaches will always find the best players for their teams regardless of where they play Town ball or Travel. A stud is a stud on any field. So please go sell your Kool-Aid somewhere else. It might work on the uneducated and newbies but it doesn't work here.

As for coaches doing extra to make their own high school teams better isn't that developing their team. The more a team plays together the better the more cohesive they are. Yes it is a job and if they don't do well they lose that job. So now we say they are taking advantage of the players and parents. Well if they don't do the extra then the parents complain they are not doing enough and get them fired.


Thank you. This is a very polished and accurate read on the evolution and current state of lacrosse.

BTW, nothing can replace hours of wall ball, miles run, and sprints gutted out. Last time I checked, you don't need a coach for any of that.

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Question. Who are all of these kids being held back in 7th-9th grade? There is no way they are in public school. Public schools would never let that happen. How many catholic schools or other private schools are there absorbing all of these holdbacks? Doesn't seem like these numbers add up.

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[quote=Anonymous]Question. Who are all of these kids being held back in 7th-9th grade? There is no way they are in public school. Public schools would never let that happen. How many catholic schools or other private schools are there absorbing all of these holdbacks? Doesn't seem like these numbers add up. [/quote

Here on LI it is k-8 privates. They are happy to do it. Such as St. Pats, Laurel Hill, and plenty of others. Fortunately there are not a lot of parents that choose to holdback their kids here. For most it would not really matter anyway bease there is a reason they are not that good.. I respect more the kids who get recruited and then decide to pg. Most get full rides to 40k plus pg schools lIke Deerfield, Salisbury, etc. That makes a lot more sense!

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Public schools "let it happen" more than you would think
Parents go to thru proper Chanel's and claim that little Johnny or Gina are not ready for next level of school

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good article today in CNN money about Professiona lacrosse.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/28/sma...ob_homepage_money_pool&iid=obnetwork

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OK, what did Joel Tinney do that constituted a "violation of NCAA rules"? Can it really be that bad that they can't give any details? Knowing the NCAA, he probably was paid $50 to work a camp over the summer. Without any details we are forced to assume the worst. Come on, man.

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How about Danowski and his "all parents are crazy" rants. We should all " just let the kids play" stop putting so much pressure on them to constantly be training, etc.

And yet what is the good coach doing this week me but running money grab group clinic at the Hub this holiday weekend.

Can you say "hypocrite"?

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All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
How about Danowski and his "all parents are crazy" rants. We should all " just let the kids play" stop putting so much pressure on them to constantly be training, etc.

And yet what is the good coach doing this week me but running money grab group clinic at the Hub this holiday weekend.

Can you say "hypocrite"?


Haha, yea, saw that! I believe he is actually in violation of US Lacrosse rules. Players and coaches of US Lacrosse teams are forbidden to advertise private clinics stating the are affiliated with the organization.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How about Danowski and his "all parents are crazy" rants. We should all " just let the kids play" stop putting so much pressure on them to constantly be training, etc.

And yet what is the good coach doing this week me but running money grab group clinic at the Hub this holiday weekend.

Can you say "hypocrite"?


Haha, yea, saw that! I believe he is actually in violation of US Lacrosse rules. Players and coaches of US Lacrosse teams are forbidden to advertise private clinics stating the are affiliated with the organization.


You better call up and rat him out.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.


I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.


I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play. [/quote

So what's your complaint? I'm sure everyone reading this post with a 12 year old 2021 son now has something else to [lacrosse] about.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.


I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play.


No 7th graders should be turning 14 next week. My 8th grader does not turn 14 till next summer. The only thing you are is a cheater!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.


I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play.


Not sure if you are for real. But what you say is the exact reason why it is done. Average to slightly above average held back a year or two .Turn above average at youth level. And with the extra playing time and instruction the average player on age might just become a little above most on age kids when he gets to HS. Good strategy if you want an advantage most dont get.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.


I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play.


No 7th graders should be turning 14 next week. My 8th grader does not turn 14 till next summer. The only thing you are is a cheater!


And so are quite a few others out there. It's not new - it's been going on for years. Look at the Stanwicks.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.


I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play.


No 7th graders should be turning 14 next week. My 8th grader does not turn 14 till next summer. The only thing you are is a cheater!


And so are quite a few others out there. It's not new - it's been going on for years. Look at the Stanwicks.
Guess that makes it ok

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The double holdback (start kindergarten late, than repeat a grade at some point later) is common among many wealthy families. Middle class and lower families have financial pressures making sure they send their kids to kindergarten on time, and can't afford the extra year of private school tuition later on. Forget about lax - being older gives them an edge academically and socially, which helps them get into the better schools, etc. Than once they graduate from a top college, this fact justifies the nepotism that gets them a plum job.

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US Soccer just went to calendar year to match up with the world. It sure would be nice.............

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Soccer just went to calendar year to match up with the world. It sure would be nice.............


One of the few things the soccer leagues do right is issuing validated player cards to avoid the cheating that runs rampant in lacrosse

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I love the sport of LAX. But holding back your kid for 2yrs or playing down for a win. Then handing that kid a stick and allowing him to check is completely disgraceful.

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And unfortunately it will probably take something tragic to happen by a kid big for his age and 2 years older to a kid small for age and 2 years younger before people would really do something about changing the age from graduation year to birth year and to require stricter player identification measures.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
And unfortunately it will probably take something tragic to happen by a kid big for his age and 2 years older to a kid small for age and 2 years younger before people would really do something about changing the age from graduation year to birth year and to require stricter player identification measures.


It very simple all travel teams need to have player passes just as they do for travel soccer
Why lacrosse doesn't have this policy ?
The passes have player pic - team - organization - date of birth
Simple yet effective

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Soccer just went to calendar year to match up with the world. It sure would be nice.............


One of the few things the soccer leagues do right is issuing validated player cards to avoid the cheating that runs rampant in lacrosse


Right on

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
US Soccer just went to calendar year to match up with the world. It sure would be nice.............


One of the few things the soccer leagues do right is issuing validated player cards to avoid the cheating that runs rampant in lacrosse


One of the few things?

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I really feel strongly that tournament organizers should offer full service massage tables and services and manicure/pedicure booths. I mean come on, we are hanging around those fields all day long and could use a release and another activity. Think of the $$ these establishments would bring in!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I really feel strongly that tournament organizers should offer full service massage tables and services and manicure/pedicure booths. I mean come on, we are hanging around those fields all day long and could use a release and another activity. Think of the $$ these establishments would bring in!


Can we also have eyebrow threading? I am always late getting mine done.

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hear, hear!. Awesome idea! Happy Endings and free Cup of Coffee too!....

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Maybe a barber chair and hot towel shave
Lol

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The double holdback (start kindergarten late, than repeat a grade at some point later) is common among many wealthy families. Middle class and lower families have financial pressures making sure they send their kids to kindergarten on time, and can't afford the extra year of private school tuition later on. Forget about lax - being older gives them an edge academically and socially, which helps them get into the better schools, etc. Than once they graduate from a top college, this fact justifies the nepotism that gets them a plum job.


The rule at most private school leagues is that you can't be 19 to start the school year (8/31) and still be eligible. Normal kids typically enter their senior year at 17, so most of these kids can only be held back 1 year without violating the league rules.


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It was cool that ESPN devoted so much time to Hampton's new D1 program, but why didn't they show the game? They already had the cameras and announcers in place. Weird.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It was cool that ESPN devoted so much time to Hampton's new D1 program, but why didn't they show the game? They already had the cameras and announcers in place. Weird.


Not weird, we've all seen the story is bigger than the game. Unfortunately, The best thing they did for Hampton was not show the game.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
And unfortunately it will probably take something tragic to happen by a kid big for his age and 2 years older to a kid small for age and 2 years younger before people would really do something about changing the age from graduation year to birth year and to require stricter player identification measures.

I'm new to this forum and I just don't understand USLacrosse not going to an age based system. I've seen soccer mentioned but even in baseball , where it is age based, talented kids are expected to play up. My son is an undersized 2020 Attack whose westchester club team added 5 reclassifieds this year. (3 of which are a foot taller and 60-70 pounds heavier and TWO years older).
Despite his passion for the game, he used to pride himself on the hits he'd take in front of the crease while creating a goal, but now quite frankly, he sheepishly admits he's not sure how much more he can take.( There are only so many Jordan Wolf motivational videos a father can show)
And I'm sorry, but where is the 'talent' of a 2 year older, 6ft 165 pound Middie taking the ball from one end to the other? And until US Lacrosse re-thinks it's grade based system, and parents are under the impression college coaches are recruiting at the 8th/9th grade then it will only get worse, until like you say something tragic happens at this 8th grade level.

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