US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2020-8th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

US Lacrosse office is located at Homewood Field on the campus of JHU. Crabs are in bed with JHU. JHU one of the biggest offenders of early recruiting, mostly holdbacks and re-class kids. Other Big 10 and ACC programs are also offenders. Is the picture getting clearer now??? These schools want the oldest most mature "freshman" they can get. When you are getting 20 year olds instead of 17and 18 year olds in as freshman, it is a huge advantage, this is why the Coaches recruit them. [/quote]

Hopkins has no special relationship with Crabs. Hopkins coaches kids play for other clubs. Some Crabs go onto to play at JHU because they are special players such as Stanwicks.

You guys are confusing 2 issues- age verification and grade vs age segmentation. US lacrosse not perfect but they have come out with best practices which includes organizing by age in single year increments u11, u12, u13 etc. I've heard they are going to announce an age verification process soon. Of course age verification means nothing when clubs, leagues and tournaments are organized by grade. USL can't compel a tournament organizer to be age-based. Tournaments will organize in way that maximizes the # of teams. Since clubs are almost universally organized by grade that's how the tournaments are run. Grade based teams originated on Long Island and everyone followed. Your teams are at an age disadvantage in the grade based world. LI parents- push LI clubs to go back to age and tournaments will follow and then other regions will too. Otherwise stop complaining about a system that your lax leadership created

Correct me if I am wrong.

the original set up was a two year gap of age under the U designation. This allowed regions with low enrollment to have 2 years play together and form a team.

Then the areas who could form teams with the oldest boys formed one team. These teams exposed those teams that had boys across the 2 years. These teams were generally boys from one grade.

Then teams migrated to grade.

For a bit grade was okay with a few K-holdbacks, then people connected the dots. they realized what could be done and what had been done by the prep families, giving some of them credit they originally played their sons up for the challenge... but then many more became wise (sneaky) and said my older son wasn't constrained by an age range anymore and can play and look better against younger players. This will help in recruitment.

cant blame college coaches as a freshman is a freshman (regardless of age). That is a business and is best for business.

Long Island has better Deli's, pizza and bagels! What are you going to do about it Maryland? Huh? Hold your bagels back? Reclass your deli's? Age your pizza dough!?!?! We'll still win! What do you got? Crabs? Use the medicated shampoo and comb, that should get rid of them!

I actually will bet that in a few years college coaches will be burnt by this enough to start catching on. Just because you look great as a 9th grader (only because you are older) doesn't mean you will look that much better once the other kids mature. I would be VERY NERVOUS is my kid was older and looked like a stud. You don't know if they are truly a stud, or do they just look that way because they are older. I don't know about you, but my son actually wants to PLAY in college, so having a "verbal" as a ninth grader means nothing if the kid ends up getting beaten out and then is never able to actually get onto the field when he actually gets to college. BUT, I do think there at quite a few people that are only worried about getting a verbal so they can brag that their kid is "doing to play at ____". Seems a little backwards to me...

So the other interesting side note is the lucrative showcase racket. Today they are marketed to 8th graders on up. If they changed the recruiting rules and you literally could have no contact until junior year that would seriously impact people that are currently selling the dream. Presumably most would see it as foolish to go to a showcase where nothing could develop. What would be the point of that? I would think the college coaches would welcome it. Fewer events to attend, less travel a more refined "product" to evaluate, etc in terms of size skill, grades, standardized test scores and more. Right now though it is a nuclear arms race and you either participate in early recruiting or potentially lose out. NCAA needs to step up and force all sides to lower their weapons and leave these kids alone until they're juniors. We can all calm down, the process will be more rational..... and the only ones left crying will be the showcase companies as their money grabs take a hit.

let's hope that happens! Woman's D1 coaches are trying to get it done

Maryland has Baltimore as it's shining star. That sums it up.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Long Island has better Deli's, pizza and bagels! What are you going to do about it Maryland? Huh? Hold your bagels back? Reclass your deli's? Age your pizza dough!?!?! We'll still win! What do you got? Crabs? Use the medicated shampoo and comb, that should get rid of them!

the shampoo and comb didn't work with your wife!

better pit beef as well.

All very good points. And like your son, my son would like to play and not watch from the sidelines. We know a young man who went to Syracuse to play lacrosse and saw very little time in only 4 games during his 4 years on the team. Tough place to be if you ask me. The world is not all about DI, there are great opportunities for a high quality education (more importantly) and amazing lacrosse experiences at many DII and DIII programs.

Raw beef sandwich in downtown Baltimore. yikes

Lol. I can't believe you'd bring my wife into this! GO LI !

It was an unforgettable evening

Yes, she told me.

Any place to get discounted box goalie gear?

Why would anyone want to play box goalie? Use the same money to hire a goalie coach....

maybe they just enjoy the box game?

Why would anyone want to play box goalie? Use the same money to hire a goalie coach.... [/quote]

Does anyone have a good goalie coach in Nassau? If not western Suffolk?

Maybe the kid plays hockey and is looking for another way to train. If you don't have an answer to a legitimate question you should STFU and don't post.

The two positions are different, that said, I don't know why anyone would care what others want to do. As for equiptment, might look into hockey monkey on line for equiptment. The equiptment for this position is very expensive.

Uh oh. Maybe no early recruiting soon? What will all these clubs do? What will all these tournament/showcase events do? If this goes into affect, no need to start spending all this $$ to go to florida or for events like Inside Lacrosse which charges about $8000/team at the 2020/2019 level. Maybe it will fix the problem with all these kids reclassifying because of the early recruiting? Maybe now tournament will throw a max age limit on grad year tournaments.

Hope this happens. US Lacrosse has been useless, maybe the NCAA will do the right thing! And, yes, there will be some very unhappy money grabbers!

This is great. Let's hope it happens. Maybe the 2019 and 2020 can just go enjoy their summer, play, and have a great time. Soooooo many people will be losing money if this happens. It simply cuts out entire age groups at this showcase events. My sons program does it right. I always here the coaches and director just saying...get better. That is all you need to worry about at the 2019,2020, 2021 level. Just get better.

Watch the mad scramble for the 2019 and 2020's if this comes to fruition.

Whats the deal with this Philly Mesa? They went 3-9 today at IMG Nationals vs soso competition. I thought they were the "program" to be with in Philly? Terrible showing.

Agree 100%

I'd say this would definitely curtail the reclass situation. Why drop down to play younger players, for when the coaches really start looking, the advantage is minimized as many more kids will have hit puberty. Sucks for those kids that reclassed as 2019 and 2020 if this does go through. It just never is a good idea to try and game a system anyway. In all these cases, education should trump athletics and a much later recruiting start will certainly allow kids to grow, develop and level the playing field.

Amen sister, hope it goes thru. All the top teams will lose 5-6 players. The teams that still qualify for age base moving on up:)

Was there an age requirement? Always slips up teams from PA,MD and Mass....

This will be great on so many levels. Cheaper tournaments and elimination of the farce of some of the tournaments that are showcase events. Kids can go back to having fun and trying win a champions T-shirt. It will be great to play to win again and not hear "the college coaches don't care if you win or lose"! Winning is not the most important thing, but it is nice to win as a by product of being very good.

Dying to see how long the NCAA sits on this could take a long time.

Who said they are the best team in Philly? At 2020 Sons are the best and HHH is second best.

This ruling should play right into the 2020 player's hands. There will a rush to lock kids up. Good for Crush. All of those kids will be off the board by this time next year.

If it passes it would go into affect 8/1/16. Do you think a coach would verbal a bunch of kids and then not be able to talk to them until 9/1/18? I guess there will either be a whole bunch of verbals or very few at all. I guess time will tell.

Yes great for crush, horrible news for Outlaws and Gladiators, etc., moron.

Unfortunately this ruling will speed it up for all the kids in 2020 especially Crush and it will impact express, crabs and few others as clubs established before this years summer.

It will be a positive for 99% of kids who are not in the same boat as the 2-3 uber elite players on the top teams. It will specifically be great for kids with some talent who have not physically matured in 8th grade but will probably catch up to the "man-child" post puberty superstars. The playing field will be more level by the time they reach late 10th-early 11th grade. Right now it is often about just who is biggest and most physically mature.

I sure hope this is the case. I'm not aware of any link between hitting puberty early and ultimate athletic ability.

The idea that college prospect camps would be limited to kids who haven't even played their sophomore season of lacrosse is insane. Flipping it so that the focus is on kids who have finished 10th grade (even if they track younger kids) is far superior for everyone.

I don't know how you can say a child hitting puberty early doesn't effect athletic ability. I have seen it time and time again when a player who is more mature physically is deemed the best player on a team in 5th even 6th grade because he hits puberty a bit earlier than most. He is bigger faster and a bit more skilled because of the testosterone kicking in because of puberty. Have you ever seen that long gangly kid tripping over his feet at 12 but at 14 he's more coordinated. Well it has to do with puberty and getting comfortable with your body and its overall development. Eventually the playing field evens out usually by 9th to 10th grade but it does happen. In 7th grade there was a player that was 5 inches taller than my son and you could see he was more physically developed hair on his face and legs. Well its now 10th grade and my son is a full head taller and bigger so on that 50/50 ball where that player used to win 80% of the time when they were younger now my son wins it 80%. Not saying the kids skill has diminished or my son became a superstar but as puberty kicks in a whole new physicality sets in and it does change a player overall.

Read it again....he is saying in the short term the kids who hit puberty early have an advantage but that decreases over time as kids who grow later catch up and maybe surpass them in size and strength.

I do get it but with this early recruiting players are deemed the best in 7th 8th and even 9th grade and early puberty is the main reason for disparity at the young ages. Early puberty is no indicator of ultimate athletic ability but it does play a role on what teams these kids play on and what looks they get at an earlier age.
The whole early recruiting is really interesting because coaches are taking a risk on players that really have not fully matured. I do get talent is talent but given two players of equal talent at 14-16 but one has hit puberty 99% of the the time the one who has hit it will be better at that moment. In my opinion the early recruiting and the expansion of the sport has resulted in the overall parody of the sport. Thats why you have close games between colleges that maybe 20 years ago wouldnt have even been close. I think its not a science but pot luck when you commit a kid in 9th or even 10th.