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Girls/Woman's stall #12583
05/27/12 11:15 PM
05/27/12 11:15 PM
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libertydad Offline OP
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I just came home from the D1 finals and I really think if the girls game is going to grow we must fix the stall issue. I have an idea and I'm sure you will tell me what you think. Lets face facts, the 12 meter arc is basically useless, or at least can be put to better use. I submit that the 12 meter is done away with in favor of a 30 yard by 30 yard box, starting from the back line. That would give 10 x 30 yards behind goal line extended and 20 x 30 yards in front of goal line extended.Yes i know it is a very tight box, but it would promote more shots and make the game move along a little better. The refs could call it much like the the boys game. after a maximum of about 90 seconds after they cross the restraining line,if the attacking team is not trying to score then the refs call a stall and they must keep the ball in the box. It gives the defense a better chance to press the ball handler and if the O steps out of the box, or the ball leaves the box it is awarded to the D and a 4 meter cushion is awarded. Keep all the rest of the rules the same, no time limit to clear( if you can kill 5 min in your end then you deserve the stall). If the shot is saved and travels out of the box, or the D deflects a ball and it travels out of the box, the O has another 90 seconds max to run a play or a new stall is called. what do you think?

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Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: libertydad] #12586
05/28/12 09:48 AM
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Think back (when we were all younger) to the NBA Professional League and the NCAA Basketball Tournament. It is well acknowledged that both sports had huge difficulties attracting fans because the games were simply boring (click for reference quotes).

How many remember Tennessee's win over Temple in the 1973 season? Final score? 11-6. Yes, that was their basketball teams.

The NBA Shot Clock (1954) and NCAA Shot Clock (1985/86) saved both games and the experience that is now "March Madness" can trace itself to the introduction of the shot clock.

Now, lacrosse can dicker with the field dimensions, restraining boxes, and a host of other items. However simply put, the average fan wants more "action" ... the fan wants more shots per game. The lesson has already been learned in other sports.

The answer is a shot clock.

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: CageSage] #12596
05/28/12 02:36 PM
05/28/12 02:36 PM
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libertydad Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CageSage
Think back (when we were all younger) to the NBA Professional League and the NCAA Basketball Tournament. It is well acknowledged that both sports had huge difficulties attracting fans because the games were simply boring (click for reference quotes).

How many remember Tennessee's win over Temple in the 1973 season? Final score? 11-6. Yes, that was their basketball teams.

The NBA Shot Clock (1954) and NCAA Shot Clock (1985/86) saved both games and the experience that is now "March Madness" can trace itself to the introduction of the shot clock.

Now, lacrosse can dicker with the field dimensions, restraining boxes, and a host of other items. However simply put, the average fan wants more "action" ... the fan wants more shots per game. The lesson has already been learned in other sports.

The answer is a shot clock.
I have to disagree with you sage, just because it worked for basketball, doesn't mean it will work for lax. A shot clock is impractical for lacrosse. First , B-ball is played indoors with fixed clocks, even during tournament play for travel teams as well as school, the clock is visible for all players and refs to see. that would be impossible to implement in lax without a hugh expense where as simply doing away with the 12 and replacing it with a box would cure the problem. making the box smaller than the boys would cause pressure for the attackers and allow the defense to go after the ball with greater success, and yes that will cause more shots on net. Second , lets be honest , the clock hasn't really had the desired effect for the pro game. Remember, travel lax is huge, a clock will work for school ball but not travel. I haven't been to a single event where there was a clock on every field. To keep the game even throughout , a smaller box will work.

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: libertydad] #12597
05/28/12 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by libertydad
after a maximum of about 90 seconds after they cross the restraining line,if the attacking team is not trying to score then the refs call a stall and they must keep the ball in the box.
Great debate. The revised box proposed would come into effect after about 90 seconds according to your post. Well, where does this 90 second clock sit on the field? Isn't this the same expense as a shot clock in the first place?

The counter will be that the referees will keep that 90 second timing on the field as an approximate timing to get the game moving. Forget about the NCAA or youth match where about 110-120 seconds remain and the 90 second rule which is based on the referee's discretion never gets called. We will leave that side debate off the table for now.

Originally Posted by libertydad
If the shot is saved and travels out of the box, or the D deflects a ball and it travels out of the box, the O has another 90 seconds max to run a play or a new stall is called.
Doesn't this invite a new tactic where shots (which will require definition) go faithfully flying over the goal through the back ten yards to out of bounds - but the ball is returned to the offensive team for a new 90 seconds?

At the end of the day, this discussion starts with the words "... after a period of 90 seconds ...".

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: CageSage] #12600
05/28/12 09:22 PM
05/28/12 09:22 PM
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libertydad Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by libertydad
after a maximum of about 90 seconds after they cross the restraining line,if the attacking team is not trying to score then the refs call a stall and they must keep the ball in the box.
Great debate. The revised box proposed would come into effect after about 90 seconds according to your post. Well, where does this 90 second clock sit on the field? Isn't this the same expense as a shot clock in the first place?

The counter will be that the referees will keep that 90 second timing on the field as an approximate timing to get the game moving. Forget about the NCAA or youth match where about 110-120 seconds remain and the 90 second rule which is based on the referee's discretion never gets called. We will leave that side debate off the table for now.

Originally Posted by libertydad
If the shot is saved and travels out of the box, or the D deflects a ball and it travels out of the box, the O has another 90 seconds max to run a play or a new stall is called.
Doesn't this invite a new tactic where shots (which will require definition) go faithfully flying over the goal through the back ten yards to out of bounds - but the ball is returned to the offensive team for a new 90 seconds?

At the end of the day, this discussion starts with the words "... after a period of 90 seconds ...".
When I say 90 Seconds, Im basing it on the approximated time it takes a team to pass it around the cage twice after bringing the ball over the restraining line, and then run a play with a few cutters through the 8. Make it like the mens game where its at the refs discretion. The later it gets the quicker the call if the attack isn't trying to score.They must "get it in and keep it in" with 2:00 and under. If a team wants to chance a bluff shot that purposely misses , then thats a risky tactic because, as we all know, it's closest to the ball when it goes out. I think a clock in any fashion is impractical and costly especially at tournament. A small box that is 30x30 is pretty much the size of the 12 meter arc extended to the back line, squared off and 4 yards closer to the restraining line . It will work

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Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: libertydad] #12601
05/28/12 09:48 PM
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libertydad Offline OP
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Sorry Sage new thought . With a shot clock you can also shoot to miss, but that is worse because I can sit a girl on the end line let a girl rip a shot that misses on purpose, and have the shot clock reset and run that length of time off the clock again. Besides how long do you give them on a clock, how will the girls know how much time is left on the shot clock, maybe I want the shot taken with 5 sec, or 10 sec or 1 sec. when does the clock start when the the ball crosses restraining line, on change of possession? I could stand a girl on the side out line and take a bad angle shot on purpose that travels side out and get a new clock. with the box, a shot like that leaves the box and should be a turnover(only a shot out the back could go to the attack). how long on the clock?

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: libertydad] #12606
05/29/12 08:00 AM
05/29/12 08:00 AM

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I kind of like liberty dads idea of the box. Besides wouldn't a shot clock promote more blowouts, turning already ugly 23-2 results into possibly 30-2 blowouts ? or even worse ?

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: Anonymous] #12667
05/30/12 10:54 AM
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shot clock could be at refs discretion much like stalling call, when ref indicates stalling a shot needs to be taken within the next 45 seconds and the stall remains in effect until a goal is scored or possession changes,as far as missing the shot on purpose defenses will need to have someone at end line also and then possession almost becomes a jump ball

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: libertydad] #53930
03/05/14 01:36 PM
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The girls don't need a shot clock, but they should have an area designated to keep the ball in , like the old ways of boys lax and have to keep it inside the restraining box.

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: libertydad] #149260
01/28/16 01:11 PM
01/28/16 01:11 PM

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how about the crosschecks? the girls game is the most physical game next to NFL football. this picture from UNC / MD is something you see every game, all the time. NCAA ice hockey and even the pros a guy goes off for 2 mins. NCAA wlax the girl just goes 3 m behind!!!! big deal, the defense gets settled, the goalie sees the field and gets the D set.. it literally makes it a smart play to cross check and stop the other teams break? what other sport has rules like this??


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Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: Anonymous] #149263
01/28/16 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
how about the crosschecks? the girls game is the most physical game next to NFL football. this picture from UNC / MD is something you see every game, all the time. NCAA ice hockey and even the pros a guy goes off for 2 mins. NCAA wlax the girl just goes 3 m behind!!!! big deal, the defense gets settled, the goalie sees the field and gets the D set.. it literally makes it a smart play to cross check and stop the other teams break? what other sport has rules like this??

You must have a daughter playing mid or attack. Most physical contact is initiated by the offensive players who think they can run through the whole team, run into double/triple teams and then get bailed out by the officials who make some nonsense call and REWARD the bad play by the offensive player. If officials called more charges and didn't reward FREE position 8m shots for bad offensive play there would be less physicality.


Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: Anonymous] #149264
01/28/16 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
how about the crosschecks? the girls game is the most physical game next to NFL football. this picture from UNC / MD is something you see every game, all the time. NCAA ice hockey and even the pros a guy goes off for 2 mins. NCAA wlax the girl just goes 3 m behind!!!! big deal, the defense gets settled, the goalie sees the field and gets the D set.. it literally makes it a smart play to cross check and stop the other teams break? what other sport has rules like this??


You must have a daughter playing mid or attack. Most physical contact is initiated by the offensive players who think they can run through the whole team, run into double/triple teams and then get bailed out by the officials who make some nonsense call and REWARD the bad play by the offensive player. If officials called more charges and didn't reward FREE position 8m shots for bad offensive play there would be less physicality.



You're 100% correct. It is the most flawed system in all of sports. Not only that, but it encourages girls to hog the ball. Pitiful.

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: Anonymous] #149319
01/29/16 12:40 PM
01/29/16 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
how about the crosschecks? the girls game is the most physical game next to NFL football. this picture from UNC / MD is something you see every game, all the time. NCAA ice hockey and even the pros a guy goes off for 2 mins. NCAA wlax the girl just goes 3 m behind!!!! big deal, the defense gets settled, the goalie sees the field and gets the D set.. it literally makes it a smart play to cross check and stop the other teams break? what other sport has rules like this??


You must have a daughter playing mid or attack. Most physical contact is initiated by the offensive players who think they can run through the whole team, run into double/triple teams and then get bailed out by the officials who make some nonsense call and REWARD the bad play by the offensive player. If officials called more charges and didn't reward FREE position 8m shots for bad offensive play there would be less physicality.



You're 100% correct. It is the most flawed system in all of sports. Not only that, but it encourages girls to hog the ball. Pitiful.



I agree as well. My daughter plays D and she is physical, but within the rules. I've told her if she continuously gets a mid or attack driving the crease but the ref refuses to call a charge, give her a crosscheck in the ribs. Makes her think twice about coming back in with such abandon. Part of the game.

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: Anonymous] #199943
12/22/16 01:32 PM
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That is exactly what happens way too much. It's like watching basketball, the offensive player is almost never wrong.
It's supposed to make the game more entertaining by having more scoring but it's having a reverse effect.
Great defense is fun to watch and difficult to teach.

Re: Girls/Woman's stall [Re: Anonymous] #200145
12/24/16 01:25 PM
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I hear ya. Lets put pads on them and turn the womens game into the mans game. Heck society is trying to make men into women.

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