US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Crabs Lacrosse / Baltimore Lacrosse Club

Yes, if he is so big, fast and dominant, and had to repeat for "academic" reasons, he should play with the grade he is supposed to be in. Otherwise it is manipulative and cheating. People claim they want to "grow the game" this type of behavior just makes people disgusted with the game!

I thought I was talking about the parents. Children do what their parents tell them at this age. Arent they doing what is right for their child jackass... Jesus. Remember this about youth sports for all of lacrosse. Not just the Crabs world and a select group of parents who have skewed the system to get a select group an advantage...

Agree, they are not great but average. Size mattered. 91 players have better stick skills and iq. This will play out down the road.

Once again....Play with his age. At school he gets to play down?? Am I missing something? He is in 8th grade supposed to be in 9th. At school he gets to play on his School team..and in YOUTH SPORTS he should play with his age??? Whats so hard to understand?/ Do we change everything in Youth lax for the select private school kids that are heldback???

You guys should come see my 13 yr old play against his 11 year old brother and his friends, he's amazing and scores at will....but he's an average player with his own age group so please don't come watch those games[/quote]

If you think those kids on Crabs were average players at the 2019 level you are kidding yourself. [/quote]

Then why in the world did they play down?? Since they are super stars playing at their age , what are they super super stars playing down an age. You Crab parent and admirers need to hire a PR firm.

If you think those kids on Crabs were average players at the 2019 level you are kidding yourself. [/quote]

The 2019 kids that played with the 2020 teamlast weekend are average. That is why tney are repeating. [/quote]

It is not their fault. Last year, 7of the 2018 Crabs repeated and are now on the 2019 team. The 2019 kids that are now playing with 2020 have been pushed down and can't compete with the 2018 players. It is a vicious cycle. I am not sure who benefits other than BL.

Grade based teams have really influence this youth lacrosse tournament. Totally ignoring USL guidelines of Sept 1, says alot about the sorry state of lacrosse and the cheating to skew the youth lacrosse system.

If you think those kids on Crabs were average players at the 2019 level you are kidding yourself. [/quote]

The 2019 kids that played with the 2020 teamlast weekend are average. That is why tney are repeating. [/quote]

They were not average on 2019. Their parents did not trust in their skills and wanted to try and guarantee them the best college placement and some high school glory days instead of worrying about the kind of men they will become with morals and character. Another case of parents living through their kids with no idea of the message they are sending .

The 2019 kids that played with the 2020 teamlast weekend are average. That is why tney are repeating. [/quote]

It is not their fault. Last year, 7of the 2018 Crabs repeated and are now on the 2019 team. The 2019 kids that are now playing with 2020 have been pushed down and can't compete with the 2018 players. It is a vicious cycle. I am not sure who benefits other than BL.

[/quote]

It is not the kids fault but it is the parents. They could stand up and say "no" rather than drinking the kool aid that their child needs to reclass. Find another team that does not promote older kids playing against kids 1-2 years younger just to call themselves "winners". Is being a Crab that important that you want to let your child have the stigma of repeating a grade because they were not good enough?

The Crabs organization is well known for playing reclassified players. Their NPYLL 2020 team rolled through the regular season until barely squeaking by the Annapolis team in OT in the championship game. I watched several of the younger kids Crabs games at Boys Latin two weeks ago and it is obvious that this win at all costs approach by playing older, bigger, faster kids who belong in a grade or two above is their MO. This is a danger to the kids and should not be allowed. Ultimately - it is the responsibility of the parents and coaches to end this practice. Unfortunately it is going to take someone getting severely injured before anything is done.

Learning disability? That you found out about---not in preschool, 1st, 2nd or even 3rd grade--but in 7th grade? Convenient excuse. It is all about lacrosse.

Why doesn't anybody hold U.S. Lacrosse responsible? They are the governing body of the sport. I don't see lacrosse being taken seriously until this is ironed out. If other sports don't have this issue, then why is it so unique and accepted by the Maryland lacrosse community?

1. If a kid was formerly in the class of 2019 and that family decided to reclassify him, he is now in the class of 2020. You guys have myopic viewpoints because you haven't been watching lacrosse long enough, but this has been occurring without incident for years.

2. I am not with the Crabs, but they are far from the only club with reclassified kids. It may not happen often on LI, but it happens frequently in the Mid-Atlantic. Why aren't you posting about the Duke's, Madlax, etc. having reclassified kids? Madlax had a 9th grader in a VA public school insist on being kept on JV because they knew he was going to reclassify to a VA private school and is now part of their 2019 team. Why not post about it on the Madlax thread?

Responsible for what? USL is not in control of these clubs and tourneys. They publish rules and guidelines but have no means to enforce.

This is not accepted by the Maryland lacrosse community, it is a practice unique to the private schools in Baltilmore, the Crabs are the primary beneficiary/enabler.

At the end of the day, that club places a lot of kids in good colleges, that's what it's all about for them. College coaches don't care how old a kid is when he joins the team.

Best comment so far... LOL!!!!

Anyone who holds their kid back a grade (or two) for the sole purpose of playing Lacrosse is a [lacrosse] bag.

With respect to MadLax, as a matter of fact, there is a public school player who is a rising 10th grader (ie Class of 2018)(and played for Madlax 2018 this year) who has "reclassified" himself for Club lacrosse purposes only and will play for MadLax 2019 starting this summer, although he will not be held back in school. This is being justified because he has decided to take a PG year after he graduates from high school in order to better his chances to play Division 1 lacrosse in college and for no other reason. He has a May 2000 birthday so in all honesty his age matches up to many 2019 players. But Crabs and private school players cannot be singled out here. It is everywhere.

Maybe the most hysterical thing here is seeing this for what it really is. Crabs is just one club, and as someone noted it is the parents determining the repeat grade strategy. Sure the clubs are enablers and fans of it, but look past that for the moment and consider this. Aren't early recruiters looking for the most polished 8th graders making a TERRIBLE analysis here? I have sons two years apart and it would be hysterical to watch my now mid teen boy out there with kids all of whom are 12-24 months younger. He is big and developed for his age and if he had that advantage it would make him look like LeBron James playing against my accountant 1 on 1. The repeat a grade kids are in that position because they were smaller / weaker than their peer group, so this strategy more than compensates for that when they are in middle school or 9th grade. But it degrades over time. College lacrosse coaches don't factor that in? Sounds good to me. Expect some really attractive college coaching jobs to open up pretty soon at schools like UVa and UNC then. Anyone in disagreement, please go right ahead and point to all those great NCAA tournament runs those two programs have enjoyed lately. I only expect that to continue, and for the puberty gamesmanship to continue to fail harder as these kids age up.

At the end of the day, that club places a lot of kids in good colleges, that's what it's all about for them. College coaches don't care how old a kid is when he joins the team.[/quote]

I agree college recruiting is the source of the problem. People are holding back their kids for lacrosse in order for them to go to a better college and the reality is that for some kids it works. There is no way to stop this practice.

What is particularly frustrating about the Crabs is that it didn't help the 2019 kids being held back to play with the 2020's this summer. They would have been better served playing a higher level of competition this summer with kids their own age. No tournament has a rule against playing up so the claim that the boys had nowhere else to play is pure BS. Playing those boys in 2020 only helped the Crabs win a game. While technically within the rules it is shows terrible sportsmanship and is detrimental the kids themselves. Adults who show poor sportsmanship and harm the kids for their own ego and financial benefit should be sanctioned by the lacrosse community.

US lacrosse does not have any real power. Complaining about holdbacks and then having your son play in CrabFeast or Young Gunz is pure hypocrisy. Money talks. Either clubs that are trying to do the right thing are going to tell tournaments that they won't play without an age limitation on the grades or the practice will continue.

[lacrosse]'s and the new World Series of Lacrosse realize there has to be at least a loose restriction on age or they won't have any credibility. Teams need to put the same pressure on the tournament organizers to maintain their credibility.

You are so wrong. That's laughable. L.I. Kids DO NOT have better skills and/or IQ. It's quite the opposite. Historically MD kids are taught the game and L.I. Kids like to intimidate and be more physical. Case in point team 91. Look at how the the owner of the program played/teaches. They play like their parents act on the sidelines. What a ship of fools.

What's tough is that if you run a legit age-eligible team that is trying to improve to a point where you can compete with AA hotbed teams, no matter how hard your kids work and successful you are as a coach in developing your team, you can't compete with holdbacks. True to a much lesser extent with teams with lots of Spring/Summer birthdays.

That said, first world problem and I can see why it makes sense for kids to be reclassified so they can use college lacrosse to get into a better school (sure not worth it financially). Classic tragedy of the commons, however. Everyone would be better off if there was a standard age cutoff and kids didn't have to give up one or two of their prime earning years between college and retirement (pre-K and reclassing and PG take that year or two away irrevocably).

i'm a baltimore guy. i don't what game you were watching but the 91 kids are off the charts with skills and IQ. Crabs noticeably bigger

Intimidation and physicality - must be confusing LI teams with Canadians.

Agree 100% - team 91 skills are excellent, Crush second to none in their age group. Crabs game a prime example of skill vs sheer size/strength. In this case skill lost out but I think that was a fluke.

Long Island will always have some of the top players with excellent skills and IQ, we are never the biggest teams at any tournament. if we are physical, then it speaks volumes for the toughness of our kids to play against bigger and older kids. but we win because we are not only aggressive but skilled.
You cant argue that point

With respect to MadLax, as a matter of fact, there is a public school player who is a rising 10th grader (ie Class of 2018)(and played for Madlax 2018 this year) who has "reclassified" himself for Club lacrosse purposes only and will play for MadLax 2019 starting this summer, although he will not be held back in school. This is being justified because he has decided to take a PG year after he graduates from high school in order to better his chances to play Division 1 lacrosse in college and for no other reason. He has a May 2000 birthday so in all honesty his age matches up to many 2019 players. But Crabs and private school players cannot be singled out here. It is everywhere.

There is no way this could actually be happening...

Did anyone say he repeated 7th grade? No. He repeated a grade in elementary school. But whatever helps you feel better about yourself.

So you are saying all LI teams are more aggressive and skilled than their non-LI opponents.

Got it.

So Madlax is playing a kid down because "he might" do a PG year after high school?? What's next... maybe they will play a kid down 4 years because "he might" go into military active duty after high school before he attends college??

What I saw at the Crabs/T91 game was a Crabs team using older/bigger players to beat a more talented teams. I watched a lot of NPYLL games this year and no other organization across the board uses reclassification to game the system in order to win games like the Crabs organization does. NPYLL and all tournaments needs to institute some sort of an age restriction to prevent the sandbagging going on.

1. Just because it's been going on for a long time does not mean it's right. If the sport is to continue growing, practices like this will have to cease. There needs to be a standard that everyone follows to take this decision out of the hands of families - just like every other youth sport.

2. current debate is in respronse to the crabs 2020 team at beach lax. When Madlax shows up in the finals of a major (regional) tournament with a bunch of holdbacks we'll call them on it too.

Pretty much, I guarantee that if you were to put teams from every region together and have the boys all be the same age, you would definitely have Long Island dominate.

I have been coaching and watching over the years on Long Island. I can tell you that I know of only a handful of kids who have reclassified. the number of these kids are minimal compared to other regions. I guarantee that 1 or 2 of the Maryland programs have more reclassifies than all of Long Island.

compare apples to apples and Long Island will always have the best tasting apples.

And apparently the most humble apples as well

What do you think the ranking is among Maryland teams for 2020?

There are no rankings. This is youth lax. Enjoy it

what is the argument against having u9, u10, u11 and so on based off a firm birthdate? This eliminates holdbacks, and allows kids to compete against their peers.

Crabs by default because they reclassify. After that - Hawks then Breakers.

Good to know you have been stalking LI boys for decades.

That is a silly generalization. With the exception of T91 - the rest of the teams I have seen out of Long Island are competitive - but nothing spectacular.

Strictly talking 2020AA:

1. Baltimore Lacrosse Club
2. Breakers
3. Annapolis Hawks
4. FCA
5. Looneys
6. Roughriders
7. Arden Diamonbacks
8. Madlax (Rock)
9. Thunder
10. MDX

Ranking:

Crabs
Hawks
Breakers
Looneys
FCA


As far as Crabs/Crush goes, part of the issue is that Beach Lax games are played on short fields and are short-timed. On a full field with regulation time, Crush smokes Crabs. Crabs is not much better than Hawks, Breakers, FCA or Looneys. We are from Baltimore and have played them all.

As for the holdbacks on Crabs, it is a fact that they have 8 holdbacks from Mater Dei and other private schools. I do not know who they brought down for Beach Lax, but they played with 8 all year. If they brought down 2-3 more, then they had 10-11 for Crush. Sad, but true.

Looney's probably ahead of Hawks (who were eliminated from Beach Lax by Breakers) but they were beaten by FCA.

Crabs last game against looneys, Hawks, and breakers all decided by one goal.

# 2-5 all pretty even, good competition between them all.