US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Crabs Lacrosse / Baltimore Lacrosse Club

The parents could simply stand up and say no to reclassing and chose one of the other clubs in the region who have shown this spring they are competitive with the Crabs without using holdbacks. Hawks and breakers both lost to Crabs in sudden death overtime in the last few weeks. Next Level lost by two playing the loaded team. FCA is in the mix too. Better to let your boy play with integrity then be associated with a club that is perpetuating and encouraging this behavior. Why so important to stay with the Crabs and feel like you must reclass just to keep a spot with them? Nothing to be proud of winning by cheating. Better to have a close game and play it with integrity.

Not sure about VLC but two 2019 crabs players played for the 2020 team this weekend. To the rest of the 2020 AA teams, you were cheated and are owed a refund and apology.

Crabs will be demolished in Denver, which will make this victory look even more suspect.

5 players not on their regular roster played this weekend. Two very obvious players who are well known in Maryland and who scored most of their goals and the others just blended in with their usual oversize holdbacks. These were good players as 2019 so even sadder that their parents have now made them a focus of not being good enough so they had to reclass -hope their 4 years of college are worth the lack of respect earned for those boys for the next 4 years as they play with kids much younger than them. Tainted the rest of the team too as being willing to be complacent.

So, piecing it together, the Crabs - somewhat Edge-style - took several 2019's that "intend" to reclass and played them with 2020 team. Taking account, of course, their team was probably already "old" to begin with.

Again, I'm the not in either camp guy, but I respect what I've seen from 91 Crush and their great skill level, which is what lacrosse is all about. This will probably be a great motivator for them to keep working to get better.

But surely we can all call BS on games being won or lost on who is older versus who is better at lacrosse.

Not near what Crabs does but I was told in the fall tournament FCA had kids from 2019 who are supposed to be playing 2020(are age appropriate) come down for just that tournament but they normally play up for the 2019 team

Not sure about VLC but two 2019 crabs players played for the 2020 team this weekend. To the rest of the 2020 AA teams, you were cheated and are owed a refund and apology. [/quote]

VLC only plays A ball at the youth level, so doubt tbey would subject their kids to ha ing to play at the AA level in a tournament.

If they cheated today and always cheat what makes you think they won't cheat in Denver or any other tournament they enter. Some Maryland parents seem like they will do anything to win a youth tournament. I wouldn't put it pass them or the Crabs to change a birth certificate.

This has always been one of my biggest complaints about the whole holdback / reclassifying issue. What about the correct age kid that gets bumped from a prominant role to a minor role due to the holdbacks repeating. I cannot comprehend how these parents, coaches and organizations feel good about winning. Shallow victories!

Taken from the Crab website on the 2020 page
9. missing practice is not ok - those that do may lose their spot on the
team. So I think I solved the puzzle. I guess most of the 23 kids selected on the 2020 roaster missed a lot of practices, that's why they had to use some 2019 kids to play the game. Clearly the 23 coaches the Crabs had on the sideline had no confidence in the boys that made the team.
Clearly they had no confidence in their coaching abilities or there players to win. They took the easy way out. I hope to see the 40 man roaster and the 23 coaches in Denver.
But if they cheated here for a local tournament I don't put it pass them to cheat in Denver. I hope the WSYL is ready for the backlash this organization is going to bring to this tournament.

Time for US Lacrosse to man up and intstute a picture card system like soccer. We need to put an end to the cheating nonsense!very bad for the sport

The ironic thing about all this nonsense is that I would bet the Crabs would be just as competitive as the rest without the holdbacks. Yes. Even with you premadonas from L.I.

The vast majority of Maryland parents do not reclass and do not agree with the practice. That would be like saying all NY teams get players suspended for fighting on the field and throwing their gloves down to punch another player. crush is very skilled but no excuse for their behavior. Neither tea m represents their state appropriately.

My answer as a Maryland parent of kids who are not re-classified is this:

There isn't a rule against it, so it isn't cheating. Most people in the Baltimore private school scene do a pre-K year for boys (they call it pre-first). I don't think that is a global strategy for sports advantage. Some parents who neither push sports or have kids who play sports seriously did it thinking before they spend no small fortune on private schools starting in first grade, they want the boy to be a bit more mature for his grade to have success academic, social and also other including sports.

The real reclassifying as I see it is repeating a middle school grade, most widely 8th grade. Some families have their kid do 9th twice. The only strategy to repeat a grade in the public school system is to flunk a grade. Otherwise a family will off-ramp their son from a public middle school and have him repeat that middle school grade at a private. Or shuffle from one private school to the other. Then once 9th grade comes some budget conscious families will RETURN their son into the Maryland public school system having done the repeat middle school year at a private.

The way I see it and have counted it using no less than the data from the clubs and schools, reclassifying in the MIAA is an overwhelming majority of the kids playing lacrosse at those schools and with Crabs and other clubs. It is also creeping toward a more and more widespread "poor man's" game where parents will off ramp their kid from the public school system to repeat 8th grade at a private, and then return to start 9th grade at a public high school as a reclassified. All that failing, if you have no money like Canadians you just verbally say you are reclassifying for a PG year, substantiated with absolutely nothing in regards to which prep school that will be if there even is one or imaginary, then easy peasy you can get a full club team together playing down one school year for club only. It seems to me that Canadians don't make as much of high school lacrosse in their country, so don't focus on it so much for school when kids are young and save for it to be tomorrow's problem.

I just don't get it when Maryland or DMV parents go off so defiantly. It is a lacrosse strategy widely applied and might as well just be forthright about it. Again, there isn't a rule against it and there certainly isn't upside in the denials and lying about the plain fact that it is very widespread and most widespread among MIAA schools and a couple major clubs including Crabs.

"There isn't a rule against it, so it isn't cheating..."

Technically, no, ethically, totally. Which is why this gives so many people heartburn.

I think the Crabs just set themselves up for the mother of all smackdowns, on national TV no less.

Easy fix is to implement age based tournaments. I'm just amazed that the Crabs organization promotes this type of play, it's embarrassing to watch these big kids play against much smaller and obviously younger kids. Whenever my kids play against younger kids it's uncomfortable when they beat up on those teams (usually when another team plays up or in games where they combine grades).

Regardless of who's doing it 15 year olds competing w 12 and 13 year olds is unsafe. Those years are the critical growth times for boys so the size and maturity difference makes these situations dangerous. The other part of this that is sad is the real 2020 kids that get pushed away for boys that are 2018 and 2019 age.

They wont make the finals!!

My post should not be taken as an endorsement of having kids repeat grades in middle school or in 9th grade for sports reasons. The door to knock on for a morality play answer is US Lacrosse. Club owners see reclassifying as a lucrative angle to 1. place kids in college programs and growing the prestige and future subscriptions to their club, 2. command more leverage over families to pay up to attend numerous events, many of which the same club owners also own in a for profit entity that is separate from the non-profit club they also own, 3. place older for grade kids with prep programs who then return the goodwill through friendly rate or free fields for the club to use. This is a two way street...how much do you think Crabs pays to rent BL's fields? I would guess it is an excellent and somewhat charitable deal from BL to Crabs given the excellent long standing relationship the two entities have had.

US Lacrosse published guidelines for all club play to be age based. Very soon after that the NPYLL became the first league to do grade based teams all the way down through elementary grades, and most other leagues and clubs followed. That shows you where the balance of power is in this sport. My only point is there are no rules against this. Well capitalized parents who want something will pay to obtain it, hence the prep school scene and the reclassified strategies.

In this case, there is a rule against it, from the BeachLax rules page...

Placement on a grade based team (2018AA, 2019AA, 2020AA and 2021AA) is dictated by the highest grade of any player on the team.
Any team in violation of the above roster rules will forfeit all games in which the ineligible player has participated and forfeit any opportunity to advance to the playoffs.

Given that there were documented current 8th graders on the Crabs team they were clearly in violation. What say you Aloha?!?

I was at the Crush vs. Crab game and I don't have a dog in the fight. My son was on an adjacent field and I had some time to kill so I went to watch. It was a great game by two great teams. It was very obvious the age/ size difference between the two teams. If in fact it is true that the Crabs imported players they should be ashamed of themselves. I guess they were desperate for a W. On a personal note to the Crab Dad who turn and stated " You just witnessed history " you gave me a good laugh.

Agree. Ultimately the Crabs' mission is to get their players in a position to be recruited by top schools, they say so right on their homepage. Given that, we should all be concerned that the next generation is being taught that it's ok to game the system for one's own advantage. Feels very 1% and says more about what's wrong with our country than what's right with it.

Funny and sad, obviously the Crabs are a little obsessed with Crush. I wonder if this will impact NLF in any way. I'd imagine it will make Team 91 even more determined to establish a first rate club in Baltmore.

Aloha isn't going to do anything. Nobody is in grade 2020. They have a graduation year of 2020. If the boy is going to 8th grade next year he is eligible. If you think that is crazy than don't schedule your team to go to tournaments without an age limitation or don't go to tournaments where the Crabs play. The reality is that holding your son back can increase the likelihood of him playing in college. The Crabs cater this market. If you don't like it make sure your fees don't go to tournaments that facilitate that behavior. Everything else is just talk.

i guess since they didn't specify 7th grade on 14-15 school year not technically against the rules as they are going into 8th grade. But that is weak and against the spirit of youth sports - or at least they way it should be. Hopefully tournaments will add in "2020 during current or proceeding calendar year" Watching the game I was rooting for Crabs but then hearing they pulled reclassing 8th graders - I wish 91 won.

It was a really good game. IN the long run probably good for the 91 kids to have competitive games, learn how to win close games etc. Crabs goalie made a fantastic save on their lefty attack.

i hadn't seen crush in a few years. i remember them being really big playing our rec team in laxsplash as u11. They had a few big kids this weekend but generally not a big team. So give credit were credit is due - they've been dominant based on talent and hard work. And not bigger faster stronger OLDER.

My son is born in late 2002, we've already decided that he'll do a year of post graduate school at a prep school, so technically he'll graduate in 2021. Should we reclass him as a 2021 now?

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there

Doubtful, if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle

Your aunt probably does have balls. I love the crying Long Ignorant parents!!

Can Team 91 really offer anything that most of the 10 other Baltimore area clubs don't already offer?

Some of you people totally crack me up!

1. The brackets haven't even been set for Denver
2. I am pretty sure no on knows who will be in the finals, until they win their games
3. Any team that is banking on being on TV better re-evaluate what they are teaching their kids because on any give day, any team can win

From the Aloha website
Placement on a grade based team (2018AA, 2019AA, 2020AA and 2021AA) is dictated by the highest grade of any player on the team.

It says grade of player and does not say based on anticipated graduation year of the player. They are 8th graders not 7th graders no matter how you look at it.

They kind of did...

"Placement on a grade based team (2018AA, 2019AA, 2020AA and 2021AA) is dictated by the highest grade of any player on the team."

The kids in question have just finished 8th grade, they played 2019 this past year. They will repeat 8th grade next season and play as 2020.

While they have their own issues, I see Crush as a talented group of kids who have worked very hard to get where they are. Can't say the same for Crabs.

Look. No one likes it, but the private schools are out of school in Baltimore. The kids that were 2019 are currently enrolled in 8th grade for the 2015/2016 school year, therefore they are 2020 grad year.

Plus, one of the 5 that played was actually in 7th grade this year. He has played on the 2019 team the last two years.

"Can Team 91 really offer anything that most of the 10 other Baltimore area clubs don't already offer"

they can offer competitive lacrosse while keeping the teams honest and truly age based, something Crabs, FCA, and Breakers don't do. Those three put out competitive teams, but do so with hold backs and playing kids down in age groups.

91 will come in and attract top talent because of their name alone, anybody who disputes that is crazy.

I guess that remains to be seen. They are a marquee name so that's a draw right there. Once you get to 2019-2020 the teams are pretty well set. If someone is feeling stuck or looking for a change this could provide a quality option.

I live in Maryland and i did say if, impying that she does not. Crabs minus holdbacks would be competitive with everyone but would be nothing special, to think otherwise is simply ridiculous.

The kids know what they're doing is wrong. I had a conversation last night with my 12 year old son about the possibility of a kid repeating a year and playing on his team next year instead of the team that's one year older. He was seriously bummed out and said "don't you think that's cheating, having to bring down older players to win?" - and my son's a [lacrosse] in a lot of respects, but i was proud he knows right from wrong in this situation. Crabs, you're a disgraceful organization and hopefully you're embarrassed when you look in the mirror. At least teach your kids to be humble when beating up on younger players, to watch you're cocky long haired kids chest bump and celebrate after their goals like a bunch of lunatics makes your cheating worse.

During the Summer 2015, 2020 is not for kids who just completed 7th it is for kids heading into 8th grade (not necessarily the same thing).

2020A - is for kids heading into 8th grade for the 1st time
2020AA - is for kids heading into 8th grade for the 2nd time

Crush entered the wrong division

Crabs is the best 2020AA team
Crush is the best 2020A team

I

Well then kudos to them for exploiting this loophole and not breaking any "rules", to the rest of us it still smacks of cheating.