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Re: Age Verification
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The reason that there are grade based tournaments with no age restrictions is that there are a lot of clubs that want to play under those rules (or lack thereof).

No one forces a club to play older teams. You either pick a tournament and a bracket where there won't be over age kids or you don't. Avoiding the AA bracket of highly competitive tournaments pretty much eliminates the problem.

The only reason there is an issue is that parents and club directors want the bragging rights of saying they won in the highest brackets and in the best tournaments. If you focus on making sure your child is playing at the level where he has the most fun and skill development than there isn't a problem.

If you want to say he played at the highest level in the best tournaments than be prepared to play with the big (and maybe older) boys.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The reason that there are grade based tournaments with no age restrictions is that there are a lot of clubs that want to play under those rules (or lack thereof).

No one forces a club to play older teams. You either pick a tournament and a bracket where there won't be over age kids or you don't. Avoiding the AA bracket of highly competitive tournaments pretty much eliminates the problem.

The only reason there is an issue is that parents and club directors want the bragging rights of saying they won in the highest brackets and in the best tournaments. If you focus on making sure your child is playing at the level where he has the most fun and skill development than there isn't a problem.

If you want to say he played at the highest level in the best tournaments than be prepared to play with the big (and maybe older) boys.


Wow that is the dumbest justification ever:

1) Club directors don't have teams that can win at higher levels without cheating

2) Therefore, either accept that there will be cheaters or play down

Seriously? Sorry you have to cheat to win. What you are teaching youth lacrosse players is that the way to get ahead is by cheating.

How about US lacrosse does what other youth sports organizations have done and make rules, and have everyone follow the rules with consequences for those who don't? Anyone who doesn't want this to be the case, wants to cheat. Period.

US Lacrosse proved their certification of equipment is meaningless, maybe they should either become useful to youth lacrosse or some other entity should take over.

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U.S. Lacrosse just tweeted: One for the Ages: Youth #Lacrosse Age Verification and Event Sanctioning [Blog] uslax.in/1DKgQo2
It's coming!!

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Each tournament is its own business an entitled to set and enforce rules as it sees fit. There is no obligation to follow the US lacrosse guidelines. If you don't like the way a given tournament sets up its divisions quit whining and go to a different tournament.

There is a market for grade based tournaments with no age limits Why do you care of others want to go to them?



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Re: Age Verification
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I think when a team signs up for a tournament they sign up to play against players that are the same age as them. When coaches and programs cheat because no one is checking the age of the players playing its an issue. Example my son born in 1999 plays on a 2017 team and plays in the AA bracket of his tournament and a team comes in that is registered as a 2017 but has 2015 graduates playing and parents from that team actually confirm it. That's cheating.

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Says the parent of a holdback. Amazing how you all say the same thing "quit whinning!" Let's see who's whinning when little Johnny has to grow a pair and actually play against kids his own age!! He won't look so big and tough then.

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Originally Posted by America's Game
I think when a team signs up for a tournament they sign up to play against players that are the same age as them. When coaches and programs cheat because no one is checking the age of the players playing its an issue. Example my son born in 1999 plays on a 2017 team and plays in the AA bracket of his tournament and a team comes in that is registered as a 2017 but has 2015 graduates playing and parents from that team actually confirm it. That's cheating.


Well said!!

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My son is not a holdback. He is a 2020 who meets the us lacrosse guidelines for u13. I am comfortable with him playing against older 2020 kids who may be older so I am fine with him playing in the aa division. If I wasn't I would have signed him up for another team that played at a lower level. When your son tries out for a club they tell you what types of tournaments you are going to and the types of opponents they will play. If you don't like the answer pick a different club instead of whining.

The idea that you can't figure out in advance what types of opponents you are going to face is silly.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
My son is not a holdback. He is a 2020 who meets the us lacrosse guidelines for u13. I am comfortable with him playing against older 2020 kids who may be older so I am fine with him playing in the aa division. If I wasn't I would have signed him up for another team that played at a lower level. When your son tries out for a club they tell you what types of tournaments you are going to and the types of opponents they will play. If you don't like the answer pick a different club instead of whining.

The idea that you can't figure out in advance what types of opponents you are going to face is silly.


Good luck on u13 with the 15 year olds this summer.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
My son is not a holdback. He is a 2020 who meets the us lacrosse guidelines for u13. I am comfortable with him playing against older 2020 kids who may be older so I am fine with him playing in the aa division. If I wasn't I would have signed him up for another team that played at a lower level. When your son tries out for a club they tell you what types of tournaments you are going to and the types of opponents they will play. If you don't like the answer pick a different club instead of whining.

The idea that you can't figure out in advance what types of opponents you are going to face is silly.


Good luck on u13 with the 15 year olds this summer.


When the tournament you registered in doesn't have enough teams to make your AA Bracket, what happens then?? I bet the team that entered into the B Bracket has no say when all of a sudden they are playing againt those bigger/cheating AA teams.

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News flash-
1.US Lacrosse has no teeth and only wants to make sure every kid in America is registered with them.
2. Clubs are FOR PROFIT and winning brings in players so they cheat.
3. Tournaments are FOR PROFIT so they will take any team that registers even if a BC is written in pencil from a foreign country.
4. Travel parents are NUTS and play in to the roster cheating and win at costs especially when they hold their child back.

There are now 1st, 2nd and 3rd graders that will pay in $25,000-$50,000+ into their travel lacrosse experience. The money exchanging hands is too big for any meaningful change to ever happen.

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Great post. You just summed up what lacrosse has turned into and it's ugly.
The programs that
Keeps cost down
Practice at a reasonable rate- not 2x every week of the year
Plays to win- but not at all costs
Plays the entire roster in tournaments.
Values respect for the game- and it's opponents
Teaches the game - not just send the 2 top kids go to the goal
Meet the age requirement - don't CHEAT
Has classy parents that understand the big picture
Does not recruit kids off other teams at tournaments

These team Are blasted by BOTC parents for not being an A program
Who cares about being the best 2020 or name grad year. Only a small minded
Adult would get any sense of pride or accomplishment from something they really had no impact on except cutting a check.
The only thing a parent should check is if their kid has a smile before and after travel event.

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Originally Posted by acblax
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The idea that you can't figure out in advance what types of opponents you are going to face is silly.


Good luck on u13 with the 15 year olds this summer.


When the tournament you registered in doesn't have enough teams to make your AA Bracket, what happens then?? I bet the team that entered into the B Bracket has no say when all of a sudden they are playing againt those bigger/cheating AA teams.


I think some tournaments are clearly grade based and you know you will face holdbacks. I have no problem with that. As kids get older, even if they are good, I may need to play in an age based tournament where they actually enforce rules just so they can play kids their own age - and that may hurt recruiting prospects - but I can do that.

But I have been to 4-5 tournaments in the last 18 months that were stated to be either grade based or age based and the rules simply were enforced. Champions in a U division with 6 kids older than the stated 9/1 deadline. 7th graders playing 4th graders. 4th graders playing 6th graders. A grade-based tournament where all the divisions (except mine) were won by teams with a majority of kids in older grades.

Right now, clubs can and should vote with their feet and avoid such tournaments, but some of the ones above were very convenient and run by good people - they just weren't disciplined about enforcing age rules when supposedly weaker teams wanted to "play down", i.e., teams wanting to win more in a lower division.

I hope U.S. Lacrosse comes in with a carrot and a stick approach to reform many tournaments. Big grade based recruiting tournaments would then just continue as is and just need to actually enforce grade rules (See Rising Sons 2021 team and Edge teams).

P.S. - I do think the 9/1 cutoff needs to be moved to 8/1, however. Lots of August boys going to school with kids born later, versus earlier.

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The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...


I don't know about your town but in my town on any given day there are 10-20 kids of all ages at our turf field playing lacrosse all day. They will be behind the goals playing while soccer games are being played .Boys and girls combined its a great thing to see.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by acblax
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The idea that you can't figure out in advance what types of opponents you are going to face is silly.


Good luck on u13 with the 15 year olds this summer.


When the tournament you registered in doesn't have enough teams to make your AA Bracket, what happens then?? I bet the team that entered into the B Bracket has no say when all of a sudden they are playing againt those bigger/cheating AA teams.


I think some tournaments are clearly grade based and you know you will face holdbacks. I have no problem with that. As kids get older, even if they are good, I may need to play in an age based tournament where they actually enforce rules just so they can play kids their own age - and that may hurt recruiting prospects - but I can do that.

But I have been to 4-5 tournaments in the last 18 months that were stated to be either grade based or age based and the rules simply were enforced. Champions in a U division with 6 kids older than the stated 9/1 deadline. 7th graders playing 4th graders. 4th graders playing 6th graders. A grade-based tournament where all the divisions (except mine) were won by teams with a majority of kids in older grades.

Right now, clubs can and should vote with their feet and avoid such tournaments, but some of the ones above were very convenient and run by good people - they just weren't disciplined about enforcing age rules when supposedly weaker teams wanted to "play down", i.e., teams wanting to win more in a lower division.

I hope U.S. Lacrosse comes in with a carrot and a stick approach to reform many tournaments. Big grade based recruiting tournaments would then just continue as is and just need to actually enforce grade rules (See Rising Sons 2021 team and Edge teams).

P.S. - I do think the 9/1 cutoff needs to be moved to 8/1, however. Lots of August boys going to school with kids born later, versus earlier.


No cutoff, no grade based, no UXX just birth year based. Kids born 2000 play together. It eliminates the different cutoff dates in different states and Canada. Hockey does it. Have an ID for each kid and a database that can be cross referenced. Hockey teams carry a book with all the player IDs and it can be checked in a few minutes. Penalties for cheaters.

Show up with the same roster you registered with. If for some reason, illness, players who must leave early, coach must declare that he has alternate players, and they must be the appropriate age or younger. The game can be played so the opponent gets play time, but the coach with subs forfeits. Refs are responsible for checking not tourney officials, too many cheating clubs run tourneys. Refs can be disciplined for infractions, after all they do want to be hired for certain tourneys so they have an interest in making sure tourney organizers get their way.

The problem is that many tourneys are run by clubs that cheat, they have social media presence and advertise and contribute to the lax magazines. Heck, the article link above has a quote from a coach whose club is well known for encouraging holdbacks and bringing in any one they can to win the championship.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...


Where are you getting this in-depth statistical research? Didn't know this was public information. Or is it that the growth of the sport exploded and you cannot expect the same statistical % growth year over year. Maybe 3.5% represents more players that played last year but the % is lower because the sport is become very saturated with player...

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keep it simple it should be done by year you were born all boys who we're born 2001 play together 2002 play together and so forth and so on ..... this U division stuff can get out of hand as well. It really be coming ridiculous

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Hockey, baseball, and soccer - all have different cut-off dates during a calendar. As does lacrosse (August 31st/Sept 1st).

It's because of the season they play in. So, I hear you point all 2000, 2001s play together - but it doesn't work like that for multiple reasons.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Hockey, baseball, and soccer - all have different cut-off dates during a calendar. As does lacrosse (August 31st/Sept 1st).

It's because of the season they play in. So, I hear you point all 2000, 2001s play together - but it doesn't work like that for multiple reasons.


Really there are no reasons. Jan 1 - Dec 31, it works just fine. Even Canada can figure that one out.

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Not true anymore. Little League changed their ages starting this year to be calendar year. Anyone born in 2007 plays as an 8 year old, and so on.

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I guess your son has a January birthdate.

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Not yet. All players have cut off in April. Calendar year starts in 2018. You have some time:)

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I think anyone involved with baseball will tell you that an April cutoff is very confusing and doesn't allow the kids to play with there classmates. A fall cutoff pretty much keeps kids in the same grade playing together and covers most states. It really doesn't matter which date is used if the the kid gets an ID when he or she starts playing which indicates a graduation year you could still do things the same way its done now. Now when I say graduation year that may not be when the kid is actually going to graduate but when he or she should according to age. I think baseball has the right idea. We all now this could change a lot of teams but if you give people time it won't be such a shock. Although the only teams that are going to care are the ones cheating.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...


Where are you getting this in-depth statistical research? Didn't know this was public information. Or is it that the growth of the sport exploded and you cannot expect the same statistical % growth year over year. Maybe 3.5% represents more players that played last year but the % is lower because the sport is become very saturated with player...


A healthy start for you to address your skepticism is the US Lacrosse web site which details participation figures. US soccer and US hockey have the same on their websites. Now you do know it is public information. The 3.5% does not represent a saturation point law of big figures for lacrosse. This sport is a tiny fraction of the participation in other sports like soccer and baseball. If you live on the east coast like I do, it is a good idea to also look outside to see if it is raining before calling someone stupid for putting a coat on.

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There is only one thing about age verification and standards that we as parents should care about, and that is safety. The competitive advantage of kids who may be a year older is a sportsmanship debate but one that belongs low on the ladder. The indignation should be that it is unsafe and indefensible to put small for age kids out there with older/bigger kids playing down a year due to the school year math. Best of all worlds is for parents of smaller kids to have the limited discretion to put their kid out with kids same age who are bigger. No s&*# some kids are big for their age. That doesn't argue a point or validly diminish my point. 99% of us should not give a hoot about early recruiting because it won't be in play for our kids. But 100% of us as parents should agree our first duty is for kids to be safe. Why should a lacrosse parent really care about the sport of lacrosse? I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I won't have much if any interest in following lacrosse with much interest after my kids are done playing. Most of us would not stop the TV on a college lacrosse game if not for our kids playing the game and stoking some casual and temporary interest in it for the time being. We are failing to do that. We are failing the kids. We are basically rolling over and playing dead for club owners who would otherwise be middle school p.e. teachers who happened to be at the confluence of the easiest buck on earth to do these events.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...


Where are you getting this in-depth statistical research? Didn't know this was public information. Or is it that the growth of the sport exploded and you cannot expect the same statistical % growth year over year. Maybe 3.5% represents more players that played last year but the % is lower because the sport is become very saturated with player...


A healthy start for you to address your skepticism is the US Lacrosse web site which details participation figures. US soccer and US hockey have the same on their websites. Now you do know it is public information. The 3.5% does not represent a saturation point law of big figures for lacrosse. This sport is a tiny fraction of the participation in other sports like soccer and baseball. If you live on the east coast like I do, it is a good idea to also look outside to see if it is raining before calling someone stupid for putting a coat on.


Here is the link:
http://www.uslacrosse.org/Portals/1/documents/pdf/about-the-sport/2014-participation-survey.pdf
The data actually shows that the u15 growth rate (5.2%) is higher than the high school growth rate (2.5%). These growth rates are slower than they were a few years ago when growth rates were in excess of 10%.
My guess is that concussion worries have more to do with the lower growth rates than greedy club owners and tournament directors but I have no hard facts to back that up.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is only one thing about age verification and standards that we as parents should care about, and that is safety. The competitive advantage of kids who may be a year older is a sportsmanship debate but one that belongs low on the ladder. The indignation should be that it is unsafe and indefensible to put small for age kids out there with older/bigger kids playing down a year due to the school year math. Best of all worlds is for parents of smaller kids to have the limited discretion to put their kid out with kids same age who are bigger. No s&*# some kids are big for their age. That doesn't argue a point or validly diminish my point. 99% of us should not give a hoot about early recruiting because it won't be in play for our kids. But 100% of us as parents should agree our first duty is for kids to be safe. Why should a lacrosse parent really care about the sport of lacrosse? I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I won't have much if any interest in following lacrosse with much interest after my kids are done playing. Most of us would not stop the TV on a college lacrosse game if not for our kids playing the game and stoking some casual and temporary interest in it for the time being. We are failing to do that. We are failing the kids. We are basically rolling over and playing dead for club owners who would otherwise be middle school p.e. teachers who happened to be at the confluence of the easiest buck on earth to do these events.


Very well said. One of the reasons that parents of the holdbacks don't understand the frustration is that their kids are not at risk.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is only one thing about age verification and standards that we as parents should care about, and that is safety. The competitive advantage of kids who may be a year older is a sportsmanship debate but one that belongs low on the ladder. The indignation should be that it is unsafe and indefensible to put small for age kids out there with older/bigger kids playing down a year due to the school year math. Best of all worlds is for parents of smaller kids to have the limited discretion to put their kid out with kids same age who are bigger. No s&*# some kids are big for their age. That doesn't argue a point or validly diminish my point. 99% of us should not give a hoot about early recruiting because it won't be in play for our kids. But 100% of us as parents should agree our first duty is for kids to be safe. Why should a lacrosse parent really care about the sport of lacrosse? I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I won't have much if any interest in following lacrosse with much interest after my kids are done playing. Most of us would not stop the TV on a college lacrosse game if not for our kids playing the game and stoking some casual and temporary interest in it for the time being. We are failing to do that. We are failing the kids. We are basically rolling over and playing dead for club owners who would otherwise be middle school p.e. teachers who happened to be at the confluence of the easiest buck on earth to do these events.


Very well said. One of the reasons that parents of the holdbacks don't understand the frustration is that their kids are not at risk.


There is a market for kids that want to play with and against the best kids of their graduation year regardless of how old they are. There are some club owners who are serving that market. My us lacrosse qualifying u13 son plays with 15 year olds on his middle school team in the spring. I am fine with him playing against 15 year olds in the summer. The websites of the tournaments he is going to state that the AA 2020 division is not for most U13 teams and they have A and B divisions for the other teams. There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.

One responsibility of a tournament director is to match like teams. If a tournament director is misrepresenting or not enforcing the divisions or otherwise doing a poor job of ensuring a good experience for all the teams that come than the solution is to not go to those tournaments.

There is no need for some sort of age police. There is a need for club directors to make sure they are going to well run tournaments where there kids will be safe. Problems arise when the club directors try to save money by going to cheaper tournaments or find it easier to say that the other teams are cheating than to say that they should be playing in a lower division or the other teams were just better.




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Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.



Ludicrous. What other youth sport allows kids 2, maybe 3 years apart to play together when there is so much contact between the players. I don't see how the marginal benefit of playing kids 2 years older (unless they are always playing older kids, it is marginal) is worth the risk.

Now, as always, someone will come along and say "well maybe then your kid should not play lacrosse". Nope, sorry, my kid is a stand out 2019AA, but put him up against 16 year olds and it's just no contest.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is only one thing about age verification and standards that we as parents should care about, and that is safety. The competitive advantage of kids who may be a year older is a sportsmanship debate but one that belongs low on the ladder. The indignation should be that it is unsafe and indefensible to put small for age kids out there with older/bigger kids playing down a year due to the school year math. Best of all worlds is for parents of smaller kids to have the limited discretion to put their kid out with kids same age who are bigger. No s&*# some kids are big for their age. That doesn't argue a point or validly diminish my point. 99% of us should not give a hoot about early recruiting because it won't be in play for our kids. But 100% of us as parents should agree our first duty is for kids to be safe. Why should a lacrosse parent really care about the sport of lacrosse? I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I won't have much if any interest in following lacrosse with much interest after my kids are done playing. Most of us would not stop the TV on a college lacrosse game if not for our kids playing the game and stoking some casual and temporary interest in it for the time being. We are failing to do that. We are failing the kids. We are basically rolling over and playing dead for club owners who would otherwise be middle school p.e. teachers who happened to be at the confluence of the easiest buck on earth to do these events.


Very well said. One of the reasons that parents of the holdbacks don't understand the frustration is that their kids are not at risk.


There is a market for kids that want to play with and against the best kids of their graduation year regardless of how old they are. There are some club owners who are serving that market. My us lacrosse qualifying u13 son plays with 15 year olds on his middle school team in the spring. I am fine with him playing against 15 year olds in the summer. The websites of the tournaments he is going to state that the AA 2020 division is not for most U13 teams and they have A and B divisions for the other teams. There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.

One responsibility of a tournament director is to match like teams. If a tournament director is misrepresenting or not enforcing the divisions or otherwise doing a poor job of ensuring a good experience for all the teams that come than the solution is to not go to those tournaments.

There is no need for some sort of age police. There is a need for club directors to make sure they are going to well run tournaments where there kids will be safe. Problems arise when the club directors try to save money by going to cheaper tournaments or find it easier to say that the other teams are cheating than to say that they should be playing in a lower division or the other teams were just better.


That's right, there's no need for age police because we can count on the club and tournament directors to start putting safety above dollars. They are going to miraculously arrive at that conclusion and all will be right. Astoundingly naive!!

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[/quote]
That's right, there's no need for age police because we can count on the club and tournament directors to start putting safety above dollars. They are going to miraculously arrive at that conclusion and all will be right. Astoundingly naive!![/quote]
Not naive at all. Just confident that I can do my own research on what teams and tournaments and teams are appropriate for my child. Sorry I like to take personal responsibility instead of relying on US Lacrosse or the nanny state to do my job for me.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.



Ludicrous. What other youth sport allows kids 2, maybe 3 years apart to play together when there is so much contact between the players. I don't see how the marginal benefit of playing kids 2 years older (unless they are always playing older kids, it is marginal) is worth the risk.

Now, as always, someone will come along and say "well maybe then your kid should not play lacrosse". Nope, sorry, my kid is a stand out 2019AA, but put him up against 16 year olds and it's just no contest.


Every middle school sports team where I live has 3 year age gaps. Usually there a a few non voluntary holdbacks. It doesn't seem to cause safety issues. 2019's are going to be practicing and playing against 18 and 19 year olds once school starts. Playing against a couple of 16 year olds probably would be good for them.

Nobody is saying that your kid shouldn't play lacrosse. If there really is a tournament with teams with several 16 year old 2019 players than don't play on a team that goes to that tournament. Put him on a team that goes to tournaments that he can have success in.

The only downside is you have to listen to holdback parents talking about how great their kids teams are when they are really just playing against younger kids.

But the good thing is that you are only worried about safety and making sure that your son walks off the field with a smile on his face so it is not a problem to play on a different team.

If you were focused on bragging than your son is a standout AA player and winning all of the time than it would be a problem but fortunately that isn't you.


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Originally Posted by Anonymous


If you were focused on bragging than your son is a standout AA player and winning all of the time than it would be a problem but fortunately that isn't you.



Ha, funny. Merely deflecting the parents who say "go play badminton"

What I find strange is that there are a number of parents who are only asking for what other sports work hard to provide - a level playing field that is also safe given the inherent risks of the sport.

Yet there is a contingent here who for some reason thinks that this is an odd thing to expect, fortunately that isn't you.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.



Ludicrous. What other youth sport allows kids 2, maybe 3 years apart to play together when there is so much contact between the players. I don't see how the marginal benefit of playing kids 2 years older (unless they are always playing older kids, it is marginal) is worth the risk.

Now, as always, someone will come along and say "well maybe then your kid should not play lacrosse". Nope, sorry, my kid is a stand out 2019AA, but put him up against 16 year olds and it's just no contest.


I agree with you from a travel circuit recruiting perspective, it's hard for most very talented 2019's to standout against kids that should be 2018 or 2017 in some cases. However, on the other side of the coin is HS ball. My legit 2018, last summer, played with his HS Varsity team in games and tournaments. Held his own just fine. It was good for him. Don't be afraid to challenge your son, if has talent and I'm sure he does, he'll do well.

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I think everyone recognizes the hat this will happen in HS but by the time they get there they should all be through puberty. I think difference between 13 and 15 is much bigger than 16 and 18.

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I don.t think it is really an issue of can a player play a year or two up, if the player is talented enough, and knows what the situation is he/she can decide to play or not. The issue is really fairness and integrity. If a player assumes parity in age amongst all competitors, and some are older than others by a year, that calls into question the integrity of both the tournament and players parents of the offending players. it is unfair, or cheating to play your child in an age group that you know they don't belong, and cowardly to excuse that behavior by saying the child was left behind for any reason.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous


If you were focused on bragging than your son is a standout AA player and winning all of the time than it would be a problem but fortunately that isn't you.



Ha, funny. Merely deflecting the parents who say "go play badminton"

What I find strange is that there are a number of parents who are only asking for what other sports work hard to provide - a level playing field that is also safe given the inherent risks of the sport.

Yet there is a contingent here who for some reason thinks that this is an odd thing to expect, fortunately that isn't you.


It isn't odd to expect a safe level playing field and if someone wants to create the lacrosse equivalent of pop warner football with birth certificates, Id cards etc. they are welcome to do that and I can't imagine anybody objecting.

What I object to is the notion that US Lacrosse should somehow mandate and enforce those procedures for all tournaments. The reality is that lots of players and their parents enjoy grade based tournaments with no age requirements and believe them to be safe and fair. It really doesn't bother me if a 15 year old attack man plays 2020 and scores on my 13 year old son. It is important to my son that he plays with his friends and classmates from the same grade.

Nobody forces anyone to participate in grade based tournaments just as nobody should force all tournaments to be age based with strict enforcement.




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We all enjoy grade-based tournaments. In the real world kids in the same grade are, for the most part basically the same age, and I think that's what most people expect to see. In the bizarro lacrosse world, grade-based has lost its meaning. 2020 could mean anything from 12-15, and that's when kids get hurt unnecessarily.

In other sports, better kids play up. In lacrosse, regular kids play down so they can be better, and everyone thinks this is normal. Again...bizarro world.

If clubs and tournaments won't govern themselves then someone has to govern them, right now US Lacrosse is all we have.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous


If you were focused on bragging than your son is a standout AA player and winning all of the time than it would be a problem but fortunately that isn't you.



Ha, funny. Merely deflecting the parents who say "go play badminton"

What I find strange is that there are a number of parents who are only asking for what other sports work hard to provide - a level playing field that is also safe given the inherent risks of the sport.

Yet there is a contingent here who for some reason thinks that this is an odd thing to expect, fortunately that isn't you.


It isn't odd to expect a safe level playing field and if someone wants to create the lacrosse equivalent of pop warner football with birth certificates, Id cards etc. they are welcome to do that and I can't imagine anybody objecting.

What I object to is the notion that US Lacrosse should somehow mandate and enforce those procedures for all tournaments. The reality is that lots of players and their parents enjoy grade based tournaments with no age requirements and believe them to be safe and fair. It really doesn't bother me if a 15 year old attack man plays 2020 and scores on my 13 year old son. It is important to my son that he plays with his friends and classmates from the same grade.

Nobody forces anyone to participate in grade based tournaments just as nobody should force all tournaments to be age based with strict enforcement.



I wonder if you will feel the same way of someday your 13 year old has his arm broken by a 15 year old.....

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