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Re: BOYS PAL League
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Happening in Nassau too. Never thought I would see the day towns would cheat to win PAL games. This sport is going down a very sad road. Someone has to step up or baseball is going to start seeing a lot of their players coming back. It's already starting to happen.


I believe this is one of those unenforced rules (like most PAL rules, unfortunately). Many towns might have 26 kids on a grade level. Way too much for one team, but a little shy for two. They'll have a rotation of kids that play on both teams so everyone gets equal playing time. It's extremely common and will never be enforced. Either way, if you're bringing a player to play back to back games he should be a detriment by the 2nd game because of exhaustion.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
How did suffolk pal go today? Any good games in 4th grade?


How did Comsewogue, Sayville an Port Jeff do in 4th grade?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How did suffolk pal go today? Any good games in 4th grade?


How did Comsewogue, Sayville an Port Jeff do in 4th grade?


Sayville played Riverhead and won by a few goals. Riverhead has some quality players and the team is going in the right direction.

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Not interested in the pathetic story, how many kids you have or if the players are "exhausted" by playing for multiple teams. It's simple. Play by the rules. Its up to the coaches to enforce the rules. My responsibility is the safety of my players. If you play my team I am asking for your roster. Now you know in advance.

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Bellmore-Merrick has a strong team in 4th grade. They are filled with multiple kids who play travel.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Bellmore-Merrick has a strong team in 4th grade. They are filled with multiple kids who play travel.


Oh, you mean the South Shore Thunder? They cheat.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not interested in the pathetic story, how many kids you have or if the players are "exhausted" by playing for multiple teams. It's simple. Play by the rules. Its up to the coaches to enforce the rules. My responsibility is the safety of my players. If you play my team I am asking for your roster. Now you know in advance.


We're not talking about older kids. We're talking about kids in the same grade. You're not concerned about safety then. You're concerned about losing. PAL has never instructed directors to ensure that their coaches have a copy of their roster with them. Furthermore, the rosters don't have pictures anyway. If PAL thought it was a problem, this would have been addressed. I can assure you that you won't get a roster from any team. This isn't football. Teams are not required to meet at midfield and review rosters. The rule is not now, nor has it ever been, enforced. If you play my team, you won't get one. Now you know in advance. If you won't play it will be considered a forfeit and my team will go get ice cream. Your team will go home wondering why their coach wouldn't let them play lacrosse on a beautiful spring day. Maybe your team needs a new coach.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Bellmore-Merrick has a strong team in 4th grade. They are filled with multiple kids who play travel.


Oh, you mean the South Shore Thunder? They cheat.


South Shore Thunder/Igloo/Express.... depends on who's available. And they're decent, but not elite at all.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]Not interested in the pathetic story, how many kids you have or if the players are "exhausted" by playing for multiple teams. It's simple. Play by the rules. Its up to the coaches to enforce the rules. My responsibility is the safety of my players. If you play my team I am asking for your roster. Now you know in advance.


We're not talking about older kids. We're talking about kids in the same grade. You're not concerned about safety then. You're concerned about losing. PAL has never instructed directors to ensure that their coaches have a copy of their roster with them. Furthermore, the rosters don't have pictures anyway. If PAL thought it was a problem, this would have been addressed. I can assure you that you won't get a roster from any team. This isn't football. Teams are not required to meet at midfield and review rosters. The rule is not now, nor has it ever been, enforced. If you play my team, you won't get one. Now you know in advance. If you won't play it will be considered a forfeit and my team will go get ice cream. Your team will go home wondering why their coach wouldn't let them play lacrosse on a beautiful spring day. Maybe your team needs a new coach.

Never seen it happen , but you are absolutely required to have copy of roster with numbers. If you aren't cheating , why so concerned?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Bellmore-Merrick has a strong team in 4th grade. They are filled with multiple kids who play travel.


Oh, you mean the South Shore Thunder? They cheat.


South Shore Thunder/Igloo/Express.... depends on who's available. And they're decent, but not elite at all.


whats your beef? nobody even mentioned Igloo or Express - someone didn't make the team????

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]Not interested in the pathetic story, how many kids you have or if the players are "exhausted" by playing for multiple teams. It's simple. Play by the rules. Its up to the coaches to enforce the rules. My responsibility is the safety of my players. If you play my team I am asking for your roster. Now you know in advance.


We're not talking about older kids. We're talking about kids in the same grade. You're not concerned about safety then. You're concerned about losing. PAL has never instructed directors to ensure that their coaches have a copy of their roster with them. Furthermore, the rosters don't have pictures anyway. If PAL thought it was a problem, this would have been addressed. I can assure you that you won't get a roster from any team. This isn't football. Teams are not required to meet at midfield and review rosters. The rule is not now, nor has it ever been, enforced. If you play my team, you won't get one. Now you know in advance. If you won't play it will be considered a forfeit and my team will go get ice cream. Your team will go home wondering why their coach wouldn't let them play lacrosse on a beautiful spring day. Maybe your team needs a new coach.

Never seen it happen , but you are absolutely required to have copy of roster with numbers. If you aren't cheating , why so concerned?


I don't cheat. Trust me, I don't need to because I can coach. I also don't whine and [lacrosse] when I lose. I've been coaching PAL for my kids on some level for 9 years and never once have I been told to carry a roster by my progam's director or PAL rep. Never once have I been asked to produce a roster by a ref or opposing team's coach or PAL rep. Go ahead and see what happens. I promise you'll be told to pound salt.

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I too have coached PAL teams for the last decade and would have no issue producing a roster prior to a game... every coach has the rosters for all the teams for pal at the beginning of the season. I was actually challenged once for a player that borrowed another players jersey from our other PAL team for not being on my roster and playing on both teams. both players were very good. Some coaches really do pore all over those things...paranoia.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]Not interested in the pathetic story, how many kids you have or if the players are "exhausted" by playing for multiple teams. It's simple. Play by the rules. Its up to the coaches to enforce the rules. My responsibility is the safety of my players. If you play my team I am asking for your roster. Now you know in advance.


We're not talking about older kids. We're talking about kids in the same grade. You're not concerned about safety then. You're concerned about losing. PAL has never instructed directors to ensure that their coaches have a copy of their roster with them. Furthermore, the rosters don't have pictures anyway. If PAL thought it was a problem, this would have been addressed. I can assure you that you won't get a roster from any team. This isn't football. Teams are not required to meet at midfield and review rosters. The rule is not now, nor has it ever been, enforced. If you play my team, you won't get one. Now you know in advance. If you won't play it will be considered a forfeit and my team will go get ice cream. Your team will go home wondering why their coach wouldn't let them play lacrosse on a beautiful spring day. Maybe your team needs a new coach.

Never seen it happen , but you are absolutely required to have copy of roster with numbers. If you aren't cheating , why so concerned?


I don't cheat. Trust me, I don't need to because I can coach. I also don't whine and [lacrosse] when I lose. I've been coaching PAL for my kids on some level for 9 years and never once have I been told to carry a roster by my progam's director or PAL rep. Never once have I been asked to produce a roster by a ref or opposing team's coach or PAL rep. Go ahead and see what happens. I promise you'll be told to pound salt.


Lighten Up Frances

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It's only a matter of time that age requirements and rosters become mandatory for lacrosse - PAL, tournaments, etc. It is done in other sports and lacrosse is just lagging behind. With all the noise about holdbacks and cheating, this is the only way to address the problem. It's going to stink for the holdbacks when they have to start playing with kids a grade ahead but hopefully that will cause people to reconsider doing it in the first place.

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It works fine in Football. Lax should follow suit.

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I just adjusted my Official PAL Roster. I added 5 kids that I'll take if I'm short. That's how easy it would be to circumvent this rule. Until they go with photo verification, you're going to be boring you wife, and anyone else that will listen, with all of your excuses for losing.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]Not interested in the pathetic story, how many kids you have or if the players are "exhausted" by playing for multiple teams. It's simple. Play by the rules. Its up to the coaches to enforce the rules. My responsibility is the safety of my players. If you play my team I am asking for your roster. Now you know in advance.


We're not talking about older kids. We're talking about kids in the same grade. You're not concerned about safety then. You're concerned about losing. PAL has never instructed directors to ensure that their coaches have a copy of their roster with them. Furthermore, the rosters don't have pictures anyway. If PAL thought it was a problem, this would have been addressed. I can assure you that you won't get a roster from any team. This isn't football. Teams are not required to meet at midfield and review rosters. The rule is not now, nor has it ever been, enforced. If you play my team, you won't get one. Now you know in advance. If you won't play it will be considered a forfeit and my team will go get ice cream. Your team will go home wondering why their coach wouldn't let them play lacrosse on a beautiful spring day. Maybe your team needs a new coach.

Never seen it happen , but you are absolutely required to have copy of roster with numbers. If you aren't cheating , why so concerned?


I don't cheat. Trust me, I don't need to because I can coach. I also don't whine and [lacrosse] when I lose. I've been coaching PAL for my kids on some level for 9 years and never once have I been told to carry a roster by my progam's director or PAL rep. Never once have I been asked to produce a roster by a ref or opposing team's coach or PAL rep. Go ahead and see what happens. I promise you'll be told to pound salt.


Then your director and PAL rep don't know the rules. PAL definitely tells the directors that all coaches are supposed to have a copy of their roster, and the rules (which also say to have the roster), at every game. If you're such a great coach, it would help if you actually read the rule book. Based on your posts, you sound like a mediocre coach, who doesn't know the rules!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Bellmore-Merrick has a strong team in 4th grade. They are filled with multiple kids who play travel.


Oh, you mean the South Shore Thunder? They cheat.


South Shore Thunder/Igloo/Express.... depends on who's available. And they're decent, but not elite at all.


whats your beef? nobody even mentioned Igloo or Express - someone didn't make the team????


No, my kid made a better team. I was saying that depending on the tournament, South Shore Thunder plays kids from Igloo and Badgers as long as they are not playing with their other teams. At Shamrock they had 3 HB's and more than a few Igloo, for example.


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Where do these extra players come from if they are in the same grade?
Let me guess... You have A team players filling in on the B or C teams. Your lacrosse director should take the time to tell you the rules or actually read the rulebook.

SC PAL does think it is a problem and has been trying to create a new rule mimicking football. But your director keeps voting it down.

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Great, looking forward to seeing it. Remember it must be filed with SCPAL and can not have players from other rosters.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Great, looking forward to seeing it. Remember it must be filed with SCPAL and can not have players from other rosters.


Don't be ridiculous. Certain A players are on the bottom of the spectrum and should be allowed to play on the b team (when available) and so on.

The top half of players should not play a level down but the bottom half of a roster (talent wise - we all have them) should be able to play a level down as long as on age.

Playing makes the kids better.

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Having kids from an A team roster play with your B or C team is cheating. There is no ambiguity as to who is on the bottom of the spectrum.

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I'm a former sachem youth lacrosse player form years back. I coach my son's PAL team in another town. Can someone please tell me what happened to their youth lacrosse program? I understand some of the teams are doing well but as a whole I heard that most of their teams are dreadful. I didn't believe it until after one of my son's games I stuck around for the next game in which a sachem team was playing. I believe it was one of their older teams. And the opposing team put up double digit goals to the tune of I think sachem's 2. As a former sachem youth athlete it was difficult for me to watch. My son is only 7 and im new to the PAL lacrosse community as a coach.....can someone that's familiar with their situation tell me what's happened over there.

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This is a pathetic argument. This is PAL. Form the team and play the team. Everyone should play and have fun. This isn't a level about winning and losing. If you are such a great coach, go coach at igloo, express or 91. Dominate and do whatever you want with your roster. Be the hero you think you are. Then you can spend a few months in the spring with the kids in your sons school and teach them to play. If your so great you shouldnt be short of players. You would have 18 or so and would be able to play short on a given weekend. Unless being undefeated is your thing. In which case you probably are bringing in ringers. You are also the jack&&& who sand bags during the seeding meetings.
You can tell the other coach to pound salt for following rules that you are admitting to breaking while you crow about what a great coach you are, but you are the PROBLEM with PAL

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You are wrong. Bringing players down is just wrong. Up, no problem. NOT down. You are probably why our towns B team gets shellacked week in and week out vs. supposed D3 teams...

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What is worse his that he does not see anything wrong with it and can completely justfiy it in his mind. "Certain A players should be allowed to play on a B team" or "should be allowed to play down"...wth? "Playing makes kids better" is probably referring to his kid and their friends who he decides will get to play on all of the A, B, C and D teams. Hopefully the PAL board members can read.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Where do these extra players come from if they are in the same grade?
Let me guess... You have A team players filling in on the B or C teams. Your lacrosse director should take the time to tell you the rules or actually read the rulebook.

SC PAL does think it is a problem and has been trying to create a new rule mimicking football. But your director keeps voting it down.


Wrong again, Captain Presumpuous. I coach the top team. When I need kids because of communions, confirmations, etc... I bring in boys from the 2nd team to fill. And unless the red are carrying around copies of every team's official "filed" roster, no one will know.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What is worse his that he does not see anything wrong with it and can completely justfiy it in his mind. "Certain A players should be allowed to play on a B team" or "should be allowed to play down"...wth? "Playing makes kids better" is probably referring to his kid and their friends who he decides will get to play on all of the A, B, C and D teams. Hopefully the PAL board members can read.


Easy guy. You're calling out several posters. It's not just one guy posting these. No, I see no problem with bringing kids up to play in my team if I'm short. If the alternative is one team of 28 players, I'd rather have two teams of 14 and risk being short. I agree with the poster that playing makes kids better.

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So what if the number of kids in a grade is 23, 8 "A" players, 8 "B"players, and 7 "C/ new" players? Where do you put the team? PAL Rule states all teams 3rd grade and above must have 15 players to be eligible so there can only be 1 team. Do you play at the B level and have kids playing up and down in divisions or do you have all kids play at the A level and hope B-/C kids make it through the season. 2 teams would be ideal but it does not work when games are scheduled around the same times. If they are in the same grade, does an "A" player playing in the "B" division make the team a bunch of sandbaggers?

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It is cheating. Justify it however you like. But do it against the wrong town and someone will complain. SCPAL lacrosse is getting smaller and smaller.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What is worse his that he does not see anything wrong with it and can completely justfiy it in his mind. "Certain A players should be allowed to play on a B team" or "should be allowed to play down"...wth? "Playing makes kids better" is probably referring to his kid and their friends who he decides will get to play on all of the A, B, C and D teams. Hopefully the PAL board members can read.


What is wrong is you don't see that teams have players on an A team that don't belong because they need numbers. Skill and ability are a relative factors. An A player in one town may be a B player in another. That should be the only thing you are arguing.

No my son never played down always up in age. But I did promote the bottom have of my team to play for the B team. Sometimes it was friends of my son. But only players who belonged skill wise.

I can see how you think many would do this for a winning advantage not me. I did it for the growth of the game and the players development.

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anybody with some info on that sachem topic?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So what if the number of kids in a grade is 23, 8 "A" players, 8 "B"players, and 7 "C/ new" players? Where do you put the team? PAL Rule states all teams 3rd grade and above must have 15 players to be eligible so there can only be 1 team. Do you play at the B level and have kids playing up and down in divisions or do you have all kids play at the A level and hope B-/C kids make it through the season. 2 teams would be ideal but it does not work when games are scheduled around the same times. If they are in the same grade, does an "A" player playing in the "B" division make the team a bunch of sandbaggers?


Make an honest evaluation of your TEAM, not the individual players on it, and pick the division that you think fits best. Do what is best for the kids - challenge them to help them improve without putting them in a position where they can't compete. If it turns out you were wrong, make the appropriate adjustment up or down the following year. This is not life or death stuff - just use common sense.

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Coaches from sachem east 2021 are lunatics. poor representation for a good program

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So what if the number of kids in a grade is 23, 8 "A" players, 8 "B"players, and 7 "C/ new" players? Where do you put the team? PAL Rule states all teams 3rd grade and above must have 15 players to be eligible so there can only be 1 team. Do you play at the B level and have kids playing up and down in divisions or do you have all kids play at the A level and hope B-/C kids make it through the season. 2 teams would be ideal but it does not work when games are scheduled around the same times. If they are in the same grade, does an "A" player playing in the "B" division make the team a bunch of sandbaggers?


Make an honest evaluation of your TEAM, not the individual players on it, and pick the division that you think fits best. Do what is best for the kids - challenge them to help them improve without putting them in a position where they can't compete. If it turns out you were wrong, make the appropriate adjustment up or down the following year. This is not life or death stuff - just use common sense.


Bringing kids up from a lower division to fill in for kids in a higher division is fine. And by the way, You would put a team having 10 "A" kids and 6 "B" kids in the A division to see how they do?? Clearly you've never played any of the teams in the A division. Unless your whole team is solid you will be crucified every game. And while I agree that it's not all about winning, it IS about keeping kids interested in the sport and keeping the numbers up so you don't have 25 kids on one team. Getting killed week in and week out sucks. From a player, coach and parent perspective.

So, again, if I'm short players, I'm grabbing them from the second team. No one will say jack. Even if a team grabs players from the first team, you can't coach your team to isolate one or two players? They can only score 4 goals each.


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
anybody with some info on that sachem topic?


My guess is too much squabbling between SYAG and Sachem. Also, kids are spread out over 5 teams. Instead of making teams competitive (A, B, C, D, E) they mix them so that they are all very weak. It's unfortunate. They should be a powerhouse youth program but they're not even remotely there.

And yes, some of the coaches are absolute trash.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So what if the number of kids in a grade is 23, 8 "A" players, 8 "B"players, and 7 "C/ new" players? Where do you put the team? PAL Rule states all teams 3rd grade and above must have 15 players to be eligible so there can only be 1 team. Do you play at the B level and have kids playing up and down in divisions or do you have all kids play at the A level and hope B-/C kids make it through the season. 2 teams would be ideal but it does not work when games are scheduled around the same times. If they are in the same grade, does an "A" player playing in the "B" division make the team a bunch of sandbaggers?


Make an honest evaluation of your TEAM, not the individual players on it, and pick the division that you think fits best. Do what is best for the kids - challenge them to help them improve without putting them in a position where they can't compete. If it turns out you were wrong, make the appropriate adjustment up or down the following year. This is not life or death stuff - just use common sense.


Bringing kids up from a lower division to fill in for kids in a higher division is fine. And by the way, You would put a team having 10 "A" kids and 6 "B" kids in the A division to see how they do?? Clearly you've never played any of the teams in the A division. Unless your whole team is solid you will be crucified every game. And while I agree that it's not all about winning, it IS about keeping kids interested in the sport and keeping the numbers up so you don't have 25 kids on one team. Getting killed week in and week out sucks. From a player, coach and parent perspective.

So, again, if I'm short players, I'm grabbing them from the second team. No one will say jack. Even if a team grabs players from the first team, you can't coach your team to isolate one or two players? They can only score 4 goals each.



I am confused by your post.

In my experience, many of the A teams only have about 10 A players. The rest are really B (and some c)players. Am I crazy for thinking this.

For towns with 2 teams the A team is usually the A players with the better B players. The 2nd team is the B players with no political connections and the c players


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
anybody with some info on that sachem topic?


My guess is too much squabbling between SYAG and Sachem. Also, kids are spread out over 5 teams. Instead of making teams competitive (A, B, C, D, E) they mix them so that they are all very weak. It's unfortunate. They should be a powerhouse youth program but they're not even remotely there.

And yes, some of the coaches are absolute trash.



Correct, there are two youth lax programs in Sachem that drown out the talent pool, SSC and SYAG. My guess is that it's the only town/district that has two youth programs competing against each other.

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Sachem has the talent to compete but because of the two different organizations SSC and SYAG and then compound the problem by having SSC split teams at k1 level into East and North by which high school they will go to. If SSC followed the Smithtown model and split kids by ability and not worry which high school they were going to until 7th grade. Sachem lacrosse ends up developing less kids because of the way they are split at the youth level. The time has come to stop the nonsense and first and foremost form One Youth Organization, Sachem Youth Lacrosse. Then take the 60-70 kids at each age group and form teams of players with like ability. This will enable more players to be evolved in the game because they are playing at the appropriate level, therefore develop more players

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
anybody with some info on that sachem topic?


My guess is too much squabbling between SYAG and Sachem. Also, kids are spread out over 5 teams. Instead of making teams competitive (A, B, C, D, E) they mix them so that they are all very weak. It's unfortunate. They should be a powerhouse youth program but they're not even remotely there.

And yes, some of the coaches are absolute trash.



Correct, there are two youth lax programs in Sachem that drown out the talent pool, SSC and SYAG. My guess is that it's the only town/district that has two youth programs competing against each other.



And Sachem also splits the teams into North and East at a much younger age now as well.

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