US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

So there are two sets of criteria used in tournaments for age, my opinion - they both stink.
1- Graduation Year, this seems like a good idea until one takes into account the kids held back a year - and in youth sports that does make a big difference.
2- The U system. Why USALax uses every other year is beyond me. Causes the same issue as Grad year. Plus why make the cut off August?

And what is actually done to enforce these age requirements anyway? Nothing of substance!
I know this topic is mentioned on nearly every tournament result forum page. I guess nobody at USALax pays attention or cares enough to listen - as long as we keep up the membership dues. Not playing is not an option - hurts the kids. Playing also can hurt the kids. The U system breaks the boys apart from their friends. My suggestion would be to go by original grad year & supply id cards. It's really not rocket science.

So the 91 teams take a beating at beachlax this past weekend and you want to change the rules?

I recognize that NY is December 1, but the September 1 date aligns with the cutoff for schools here in Va, and I am told that of most other states.
As for every year v. every other year age ranges, it has to do with numbers. Clubs in non-hotbed areas struggle to form teams at a single age, and would not be competitive.
Overall, the current system seems to be antiquated. As sport has grown, it would make sense to have clubs governed by a single authority, charged with rules, ages, insurance, etc. USLacrosse needs to step up and respond faster to the evolving issues

91 teams didn't take a beating. So I don't know where your getting that info.

This thread was not intended to discuss the merits or outcomes of 91 or any other club for that matter.

VaLaxDad makes a good point about age cut off outside of NY, which is why the U system is used in other sports - but two year groupings is not adequate. It wouldn't be that difficult for USLacrosse to come up with a standard that matches the majority of the population for youth lacrosse. Current system is not working and needs to be addressed.

US lacrosse needs to go to single year9u 10u 11u 12u13u 14u 15u. If you go grade only teams will stack their team with play back kids.

Most events are independently operated. US Lacrosse set guidelines that fit the events that they run. Not every team plays in their events, so identification cards issued from US Lax with D.O.B and current grade would be the best answer. It will give proof that can be used at any event. Should not be that hard, they could have an option to upload a picture during the registration process. When it comes in the mail you have the id card ready to go.

Yes, that would be a great start. USlacrosse also issues supplemental insurance for most (all?) events that I have been to--they could simply refuse to insure events that don't comply.

ID cards WITH PICTURE ID, verified by Birth Certificate. You own the card - if you play with XYZ team and do not have your card you do not play, if next weekend you play with ABC team don't have your card, you don't play - no ticky no shirty....Takes all of 2 minutes to check a team in (before each game) and make even more simple..go by US Hockey ages, 99's play with 99's, 98s play with 98's...it is pretty simple - BUT US Lacrosse will not step up...it is very sad for the governing body not to act at all...they MUST have pull with the insurance companies that insure these tourneys independent or otherwise...

In my experience the insurance just askes the organizer to require each player is/has a US lacrosse # and waivers are filled out, but as a player if you do not have them you are still able to run the event without being liable. The onus is on the teams to provide you not for you to demand to collect it. I wish all coaches knew that one. Because truly under law if their player causes an issue or is hurt the coach is the responsible party.

So all you daddy coaches beware.

Let's make it simple. Every player has an ID. Just like soccer does.

No more sneaking kids on teams or lying needed.

Totally agree!! US Lacrosse needs to make it happen.

AMEN TO THAT!!

not sure if they ( US Lacrosse) have the infrastructure to take on this monumental task. They should start offering the service at the convention fan fest, NCAA final 4 etc.

Give or take $13,000,000 a year in dues should be a heck of a place to start

Soccer does it. You have money for travel. You have money to implement id's

Is that seriously what they earn?

I am not sure BOC wants to have a topic dedicated to this topic. It will take 90% of the posts away from other topics. It really is ridiculous how every age group and tournament topic posts continually about supposed age violations.

Part of the problem is that there are too many groups following different age groups and different cutoffs. 12/1 vs 9/1. 2020 vs U13, etc. I have to believe most people are following the league rules, but when it comes to tournaments and inter-league contests, the differences are obvious in the performance levels and the complaining starts.

USL really should start certifying every league and tournament and in order to be certified, they must follow the single year USL birthday cutoffs:

Birthdate Age Bracket
9/1/1997 – 9/1/1998 U15
9/1/1998 - 9/1/1999 U14
9/1/1999 - 9/1/2000 U13
9/1/2000 - 9/1/2001 U12
9/1/2001 – 9/1/2002 U11
9/1/2002 - 9/1/2003 U10
9/1/2003 - 9/1/2004 U9


Steve Stenersen of USL posted this response on another site…..
“The problem with grade-based segmentation in youth sports is, of course, that it's not in the best interests of kids. The different rates of physical and cognitive development at each age varies widely so, in contact sport like boys' lacrosse, it's simply not safe to allow kids of such varying ages and development levels to compete against each other. Nor does it reinforce the fundamental principles of fair play and fun that are essential to player retention in youth sports. Allowing the club "system" and associated recruiting events to determine what's best for your child is not only a clear conflict of interest...it's a tremendous abdication of responsibility by the primary consumers of a child's lacrosse experience - parents. As most people should know by now, sport-specialization at an early age, year-round play, and the belief that playing more games is essential to player development are all myths. Sport specialization and year-round play burn kids out, drive them out of sport at too early an age, and lead to what has become an epidemic of overuse injuries in developing bodies. And, contrary to popular belief, playing more games doesn't make a player better; too often it simply reinforces bad habits because the quality of coaching offered by club teams is so inconsistent. It's incredibly ironic that peer pressure among parents plays such a significant role in the decisions they make on behalf of their kids...as does fear of retribution against their children from club programs and their coaches. That fear, alone, should trigger a serious concern. Sadly, parental ego also plays a role at times. But none of those are justifiable excuses for parents to allow and enable the youth lacrosse "industry" to make decisions based on its own interests...not those of the children they are paid to best serve. The single biggest factor in determining a child's success on the athletic field is genetics, not how much you play or pay. The overwhelming majority of kids who play club lacrosse and attend recruiting events won't get a college scholarship or admissions preference to play lacrosse in college. Most won't even play at the high school level. Club programs and tournaments are not inherently bad, but they need to be held accountable to what's best for your child. In a free market economy, it's up to the consumer - us parents - to make that happen. Or not.”

What are you talking about sneaking kids on teams? Who are you to say my son cant play in a tournament any weekend he is free from his Travel or town team.

I agree, an Id system is a good idea but not to limit the players, just protect them. Many players play for their town teams that travels and those same boys are involved with various travel organizations. Many times these same boys will play with friends they have made along the way at the spur of the moment.

Why dont you think this should be allowed, why cant players be able to do this? You say sneak a player on. These travel teams do not play in a league. Until they d,o any player can play on as many teams as he doesn't have a conflict with.

I agree. Kids should be allowed to change teams so long as they are not too old. However, I think that all tournaments should not allow kids to play on more then one team. That would stop the older kid from playing down or the "A" kid from helping out his program's "B" team.

For every team you play. You pay for membership. enough dropping varsity players down at tournaments to help jv. Enough bending the rules. Guess it's worth teaching kids to be corrupt because most careers are these days. Way to go strong island. When you can't win on your own merit. Cheat

By far this is not a Long Island only issue, by even stating that shows your ignorance. The issue at hand is can we parents band together and make a change to the systems. Are we willing to contact the clubs, the tournament organizers & the USLacrosse to address this problem.

Lax is getting to be big business. It's time the overseeing authorities makes a stand to correct this.

Wow I think that is drastic. For every team you play you pay. How about, I register for a child and from that the tournament/teams know who my son is.

Summer Sizzle put out a magazine (for lack of a better word) that shows all the rosters - you can check who you are playing had town and HS grad yr. All tournaments should do this so you can self police. But I am sure there is a cost.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/about-us-lacrosse/contact-us.aspx

Lets tell USLacrosse and see what happens. Seems like most people want to go single year and be given a vehicle (like an ID card) to validate.

My son's team is playing in the U-15 National Championship and I had to upload his birth certificate for age verification on the US Lacrosse site....so they have the technology......

I filled out the request for the review age guidelines. Everyone who thinks this should be reviewed, go fill it out. Perhaps we can actually enact some positive change. And maybe for transition purposes tournaments run ones like Aloha does. Age based and grade based until every goes to age.

But that's the only tournament I know that does that. It's good to know the technology is there but I have yet to see it in widespread use. Even two years ago when my daughter went to U15s, we just handed a copy of the birth cert to her coach.

This is the type of positive action I intended to come from this post - well done. Please, if you think this is an important issue - follow suit and post that you did it. Tell your friends that are concerned to do the same.

I just did it! You all should too!

Good stuff. At the very least I hope it will be reviewed and taken under advisement. Interestingly nothing negative on this thread. So that leads me to believe everyone wants this.

I heard people actually sign up for US LAX and use a fake birthdate so when they register for tournaments like TRi State check it appears kid is age eligible.

Need a better system or someone to get seriously hurt before change is made.

I did that! you don't need o provide any proof. I actually did it so my son could try out for an older team and I didn't want them to know he was younger, but I'm sure it works both ways.

With all the talk about teams adding older players, I would have thought this topic would be on fire with people posting that they notified USLacrosse and want them to address this. I guess people just like to complain and not do anything about it. Really how hard is it to send an email?

I think that tournament organizers should spot check teams against the rosters they registered their teams with. If a kid is on the field and not on the roster, team is asked to leave tournament immediately and forfeit their games. Might stop teams from stacking their roster after they find out who they are scheduled to play in tournaments.

I am a father of a boy that currently plays for a 2020 team. He's a very strong player but born later in the year (August). So next year my wife and I decided that we are going to hold him back and repeat 6th grade again, purely for athletic reasons. He's an excellent student also, but he will now dominate in the 6th grade for the 2015 season. It's within the current US Lacrosse age guidelines so anyone that doesn't like this move can suck it.

Maturity and scholastic's are reasons to have your son repeat. Athletics = you're a tool. Get your head out of your butt. You are not doing your son any service.

That is very sad. sacrificing academics for the sake of trying to get an advantage in a recreational sport. If he is a good student, how will the school allow you to make that decision? Very sad

And if he gets a scholarship as a result? Playing devils advocate, but if it is an ends to means.

[quote=Anonymous I am a father of a boy that currently plays for a 2020 team. He's a very strong player but born later in the year (August). So next year my wife and I decided that we are going to hold him back and repeat 6th grade again, purely for athletic reasons. He's an excellent student also, but he will now dominate in the 6th grade for the 2015 season. It's within the current US Lacrosse age guidelines so anyone that doesn't like this move can suck it. [/quote]

Yeah baby! Your "7th grader" is going to dominate those little 6th grade "suckers". Just don't let your son know that he "sucked" on age because it just might have the opposite effect that your gaming is hoping to achieve. Oh, and I hope he stays focused on his academics because that's the best avenue to achieving his dreams.

Best of luck. Your family needs it.

Scholarships are a pipe dream, yes they are out there, but for any given kid, the chances are very, very slim. If your kid is good enough to qualify, then I don't think a year either way is going to make a difference.

Have a friend who's son was recruited as a sophomore from a top club to a D1 school (winner of multiple national championships) - and he only got a partial scholarship.

Take all your club fees, private lesson and clinic fees, along with the money spent for gas, food, and hotels, for all of those tournaments over the 6-8 years that you do this, put that money in and index fund, there's your scholarship.

Father of the 2020 soon-to-be 2021 hold back is here again...to be clear, my son is an A-A+ student so no academic issues and is a solid A-A+ player. Since US Lacrosse allows it, we are simply holding him back a year to give him yet another advantage, it's legal/within the rules, so what's the problem. Last piece of information for you all - I make a ton of money, so don't need scholarship $$$, this is all about putting my son in the best position possible so he can be the best under US Lacrosse rules. You only live once people...

So I take it your child is in 5th-6th grade. With my children now playing in high school and still being a coach, just hope junior continues to grow and continues to be quick. I've seen many little superstars fade by the time their in high school.

I would do it if I could, can't afford it. My sons are both great players and will probably play in college, but as parents we want to put our kids in the best possible position. Only thing not fair is that it comes down to $$$

So holding him back, like being left back, like the special kids? Here's a news flash if you are good enough, everyone can play in college especially if you have tons of money. So hold him back like the special kids so he can be a stronger lacrosse player. You my friend are what is wrong with todays parents of an athletes. When he blows his knee out or decides he doesn't want to play in school then what. Its the kids life, not yours. WHAT A TOOL OF A PARENT! I look forward to him coaching my grandkids as a Express summer coach making a few pennies 15 years from now. (something tells me the original email is probably a joke, but with todays parents you never know.)

Lets try to get back to a productive thread. Whether or not the community believes in the tactics of a particular poster is not relevant. This attitude to look for loop holes within rules is what we are looking for USLacrosse, the Club Administrators and Tournament Organizers to address. Either embrace a single "U" age system or enforce the "original" graduation year of the players.

even if USL puts a system in place for ID's and even if they only sanction tourneys that are age based it will still not make a difference, there is nothing that says a tournament will have to be or want to be USL sanctioned event and nothing that will force them. Any decent recruiting tournament will always be grade based because that is what the college recruiters want to see 2017's v 2017's.

My son is a 2018 and was born in 2000 (correct birth year for grade) and plays on a competitive summer team, I would never join a team that was age based and only went to age based tournaments - I want him playing against 2018's regardless of age because that is who is competing against for a college roster spot.

When all is said and done nobody cares who wins a tournament and it is not about the competition it is about improving as a player and getting into a better scholastic college then you could have without lacrosse.

Work on an academic scholarship. More of them, so odds are better if the child is a A, A+ sturdent

Well said.

Once the kids are in high school, I age that the grade level works fine. You have kids fighting for jv and varsity spots in high school and the only time something is a little off is a kid there past his true senior year. However, for kids truely 8th grade or younger, the parents need to focus on creating a fair competitive environment by playing based on age. If a kid wants to play up - fine, let him challenge himself, but playing down though any loopholes or hold backs or other method is wrong and against the spirit of fair play. If your kid wants to dominate his age group, tell him to practice and hit the wall, don't have him play down.

So if my son was born on August 15, 2002 and is in 6th grade this year (2020), and one of his friends was born on August 8th of the same year but his parents started him late in school such that he plays with the 2021, do you see a problem with this scenario?

The issue isn't one or two kids but a team (or core of a team) made up of those kids.

The rule in NY by most accounts is Nov , US lacrosse has Sept. There will always be older and younger (Aug 31st vs Sept 1 of the same year) and there will always be those that are close to the cutoff (Aug 1st) that feel shortchanged or will bend the rules to benefit themselves (Sept 15th).

To me if your kid is born prior to Nov you should be in the grade with kids born the same year as you. But that is me. If you are held or left back you do play with your grade. If you feel better with you older kid beating up on younger kids so be it. Why wouldn't you play him up with his age until HS, then let him shine in HS when he is the oldest boy who played a tougher youth experience.

Work on an academic scholarship. More of them, so odds are better if the child is a A, A+ sturdent

Completely agree. Long term academics are infinitely more important than lax skills...

I was a Dec birthdate I was always the youngest to do everything, at times they tried to prevent me from "playing up" which was playing with my grade because of my birth month/age. Fortunately my folks were smart enough to say "those are the boys in his grade... Look at his skills look at his size... play my son with is friends in his grade... it is not fair to the boys a year younger..." I look at my folks; they had integrity.

I was fortunate to attend some competitive sports camps and in a particular camp competed against guys from Maslin Ohio. As a soph in HS, I was competing against boys the same age as Sr's in my school. It didn't bother me because i wanted to play Varisty. What I didn't realize till much later was it happened everywhere, they held back kids in 5/6 grade just to play Football. I thought it was something that just happened at that particular school or in that area. I thought it was funny.

I also played college sports, that is where I thought the age difference was amazing. I was at a distinct disadvantage. Playing football with boys from Texas and Penn puts you at a distinct disadvantage. They were always a year older than most and close to 2 years older from me. Playing with boys from NYC was also scary (They were legitimate Left backs). I was a 17year freshman competing against 19/20 year old freshman (fall not spring sport there was no turning or just turned you are what you are). A very scary scene. Going in I knew if I wanted to play Id have to beat out 20 year olds I just thought they'd be upper classmen, I didn't think I'd be competing against these older Texas boys every year the rest of my college career. (yes Soph and Jr year most freshman were older than me)

In that same time period, this was not happening in Lacrosse. The older boys in lacrosse were those that went to "Prep school" for a year. They went there to get college ready. I see the current climate of lacrosse changed to what I witnessed in the 80's of Football and the bigger money sports. If the colleges didn't do anything (between then and now) to change the rules I don't think it will stop instead I think it will just gain traction in lacrosse.

If your son us born within a month of the cutoff and is small for his age, the league should approve a waiver, especially if he was born premature. But let the league decide.

December 1 is the guideline in NYS to start school. If a child is born before that he should go to Kindergarten by NYS standards. If you want youth sports safe (like football, soccer, baseball, etc.) you play AGE. When the kid gets to HS then you can go to grad year because the colleges want to know when they graduate. It's easy, safety for youth and graduating year for HS

What is the cut off for Maryland. My daughter played a MD team this weekend and the girls on average were a 1/2 head taller than all of our girls.

Maryland's cutoff for school grades is 9/1. The same cutoff suggested by USL.

But you can't prove a grade. So when someone is held they are older but in the grade younger.

How about a system similar to youth football, soccer, and baseball. Every youth player has a registration card. Birthdate has been verified by presentation of a birth certificate. Play by age.

Needs to be age delimited (U) with ID cards. Pick a date that most can agree on and roll with it. Say Sep 30 - give the parents of kids with Oct and Nov birthdays the option of playing "Up" with the friends/schoolmates if in a school that goes till Dec 1. Playing up is not a problem, it playing down that people have an issue with and with grade based systems, there is too many variables to skirt the system.

I reached out to U.S. Lacrosse (www.uslacrosse.org) on the subject of single year age guidelines. I was pleasantly surprised by the timeliness of their responses and their readiness to engage on this topic. It was quite apparent that this is a subject that is very much on their radar. Below are the responses I received to my email questions (which I removed to keep this post somewhat concise). Most importantly, the last paragraph highlights how you can reach out to USL and voice your point of view. If this issue is really that important to you, then take a few minutes to have your opinion count.

From U.S. Lacrosse

I appreciate your email and the concern about age eligibility. The age vs. grade has been a big debate and huge issue of contention for many areas. US Lacrosse has been fervent in their support of an age based system. I can tell you personally, that US Lacrosse has not been silent on this topic.

US Lacrosse spends hundreds of thousands annually in health and safety research, and coached and officials education. Additionally, we review the rules we put forth each year and have pushed those rules and recommendations to groups, leagues and events. It is at events we see the largest age discrepancies, we unfortunately do not have any oversight of those events unless they are run by US Lacrosse.

While we set forth best practices annually, many tournament directors either choose to not adopt or enforce our recommendations. Furthermore, many of these directors turn their head once the check has cleared. This doesn’t provide the best experience for any individual whether it be a participant, coach, official or parent.

US lacrosse has been proactive in ensuring the best experience for everyone in the game. Our membership department is testing an age verification product this summer, with a larger deployment next summer. Our Gold Stick program, identifies leagues who use the best practices and rules of US Lacrosse. In the summer of 2015, we plan to have a Gold Stick Tournament sanctioning model in place, I suggest you attend these tournaments and events. Finally, work with your fellow parents and coaches to choose tournaments that offer USL certified officials and US Lacrosse Rules.

There is risk related to every sport, and to each time an individual steps onto a lacrosse field. US Lacrosse has advocated for no more than 24 months in age difference between youngest and oldest player for the fact that many developing areas cannot field a full team at one age. We will continue to evaluate our age grouping and engage individuals like yourself for their insight as we move forward.

To give you some history to this, the age groups came out of the high school structure, where the age difference can be anywhere from between one and five years. The move by the organization was to reduce it to less than twenty four months to create a safe, equitable, enjoyable, and level playing field.

Going forward this may be reduced to a year, but in 2014 the age guidelines will remain the same. As I’ve mentioned earlier, we review this every year. I encourage you to complete our rules survey and even submit a rule change, both of these can be found on the following webpage:
http://www.uslacrosse.org/rules/boys-rules.aspx
The deadline states May 20,014, but it can be considered for next year and can be used as a reference point in meetings going forward. Since the age guidelines are not a rule, just write “Age & Eligibility Guidelines” where it asks for rule name. Use the number 1 for page, section and article.

Glad to hear some truth on this matter.

Nice response from USLacrosse, I unfortunately did not receive anything from my inquiry. But I am happy to see their response none the less. I would hope the Gold Stick standards are publicized before try-out season!

This should put a rest to majority of complaints there are on this subject. It will be up to us as parents to "push" the travels clubs in choosing a Gold Stick tourney.

That is why team long island has gone to age vs grade because it doesn't allow the teams to cheat by using overage kids and the playing field is fair and less chance for injury. The problem is the other organizations are profit based and they care about the check and not the safety of the player

For grade based, We are seeing a problem with teams without red shirts outright lying about grade, just so they can keep the older kids on the team and level the playing field. They are younger age divisions and maybe the kids are planning on repeating 8th grade so the graduation year isn't really a lie.

Any inquires can be submitted to Boys Youth Rules <boysyouthrules@uslacrosse.org>

Received a similar response from US Lacrosse but they do have control if they want it. Several of the tournament providers known for not verifying ages and turning their backs on teams that are known offenders of loading teams with kids outside of even the two year span, are using US Lacrosse insurance and they should not be allowed to use the insurance if they are not willing to collect birth certificates and report cards similar to the structure used by AAU for basketball and other sports. This is not rocket science - other supervisory athletic organizations do it and we deserve better for our kids. $25-35 a year and they are not requiring even those tournaments requiring US Lacrosse membership #s for registration and who are using their blanket insurance (that we pay for) to institute guidelines. Gold Stick is a step in the right direction but it is voluntary. Kudos to the Dicks NDP tournies for stepping up to require birth certificates this year and keeping them on file for future years! Please send a message by encouraging your clubs to walk away from events that do not require proof of age.

We were at Sweetlaxin tourney this weekend, in our grade based bracket there were 2 teams that went undefeated. I inquired why there was not a play off between these 2 teams. The staff member told me that they found out that one of the undefeated teams had 11 6th graders playing on a 5th grade based team. They were removed from the playoff contention. USLacrosse based tournament, nuff said....

Shameful and the kids deserve so much more from US Lacrosse. Time for US Lacrosse to actually provide a service for the fees they are charging each player. Keep the magazine and actually institute requirements designed to protect kids from teams not following age and/or grade guidelines. And sanction the coaches and clubs that are found to be in violation - send a message before someone gets hurt.

At least something was done unlike the un sanctioned tournaments. How many more times do I have to see kids my size claiming to be in grade school. Why is it there is no age verification?

And Gongas tried to turn Suffolk PAL into age and got voted down by the other town reps. If you voted against and your a town PAL rep. Shame on you.

Team LI does not go age based! What a bogus selfs erring lie. I saw players on their U13 team who just finished up 8th grade. And lets not say they all have "magic birthdays" because I know these kids and know for a fact they do not.

What grade a child is in has little relation to what AGE he is. ALL of the boys on this team qualify for U13 by US Lacrosse rules. The boys who just finished 8th were all born in the 4th quarter of 2000. If you know the kids, as you say, then you are a deluded liar to claim anything else. Again AGE, not GRADE is what matters for a U based team.

When a child is held back, or repeats a grade, he does not become younger. You have magically changed his projected graduation date specifically to make him eligible to play with and against younger kids. You didn't make him younger

ok Mr know it all!You are not too swift are you? U-13= born 9/1/2000 or later! Kids who have bithdates in 2000 are SUPPOSED to be in 8th grade going into 9th. btw they played in the 2018 (rising 9th ) anyway because they are not allowed to play against the OLDER 7th graders (born before 9/1/2000). you are comical!

Yeah, nothing wrong with playing a kid who is age eligible who is in the higher grade. In fact, as that is the opposite of people holding back their kid for athletic reasons, perhaps it is laudable. Of course, if mature enough, he might want to play up to be with this friends, but that is their choice.

I want to vent for a moment. I was in a U11A division early this month in a big tournament under U.S. Lacrosse age rules. The tournament director let a U13B team play in our division, because they were missing half their kids and pulled up some U11 kids . I emailed the fact it was a U13 team to tournament director well in advance, but since I was not scheduled to play them, I did not make a bigger issue of it. It was frightening to watch the difference in size between some of those U13's and the U11's they played (7th grade D vs 4th grade A!), particularly as some of tournament refs still thought bodychecking is allowed at U11 as long as the player takes less than 3 steps (one cited that to me as a U.S. lacrosse rule). Anyway, to add ironic insult to (thank god no) injury and to stray a bit off topic, the director's U11 team beat my team pretty bad in pool play but we earned a rematch in the championship and got up on their (admittedly better) team in the first half and the tournament director came over to our sideline in the middle of the game and in front of the kids and accused our team of adding (presumably U13) new players or else how could we get up on his program's team? Huge distraction and other team went on 4-goal run before he calmed down and believed we had the same kids and we coaches were allowed to coach again. True story. Too bad he only cared about age rules when his team was losing. We are going to be pickier with our tournaments next year, for sure.

TOO MUCH MONEY INVOLVED FOR ANYONE TO CHANGE, SORRY

can you tell us what tournament this was, so everyone knows to steer clear

Wonder if it is the same tournament that let rising Freshman play rising 7th graders in the equivalent of the U13 B Division - the size differential was huge, kids got hurt and several teams asked for the roster to be reviewed - the size difference was that big. Men playing boys. It was the Hogan Summer EXposure tournament which required US Lacrosse ids to play so probably using their insurance yet the kids were not protected. We will stay clear of that promoters tournaments in the future.

It wasn't Hogan's and my impression having played in their tournaments twice is that they were one of the good guys. In fact, I was going to replace this big Southern tournament with Summer Exposure for our multiple travel teams. I think it is tremendously important for age rules to be respected. I mean it's kids we are talking about.

Boys between the ages of 8 and 15 are growing and gaining weight as fast as they ever will in their life.

On average, they grow 2.4" a year and gain 10 pounds a year. So in a two year per division system, the youngest average kid (e.g. born 8/31/2002) will be 20 pounds lighter and 4.8" shorter than the oldest average kid (e.g. born 9/1/2001).

If you have an old 1year holdback (reclass born 9/1/2000), that kid on average will be 30 pounds heavier and 7.3" taller than the youngest in that 2 year division. That is huge difference especially at the 8-9 year old range.

Of course every kid is different and these are just averages, but you can see why for the fairest and safest games, the leagues should really limit the age differences - especially from 8-15 years old.

As a parent who has witnessed larger kids breaking smaller kids bones on more than 1 occasion and also seen multiple concussions induced by the larger kids in the U9 and U11 ages brackets, I feel we should work towards enforcing a single year division system with age (not grade) cut offs until the kids are 15 or 16.

Age / Weight/ Height data:
https://edc2.healthtap.com/ht-stagi...ri20121213-30526-1i4c4nq.jpeg?1386569716

My team ages up to U13 on September 1 (2021s). 4-5 of my midfielders weigh 75-80 lbs, which is around 25% for an 11 1/2 years old per the above chart. Compare to a kid who is 12 1/2 years old and in the 75-90% range (not unusual for a travel team) and weighs 110-130 lbs.

Not complaining my team is small - that's who made the team - but one can see how much safer it will be for my kids to play other kids their age. Playing in 2021 divisions should provide that, barring a bunch of hold-backs and I've only heard of one 2021 team accused of that. But, at least in my case, I will seek tournaments that have a 2021/U12 division and avoid those tournaments who don't enforce their own age rules.

PS - Last Fall was a mess with the new U.S. Lacrosse age rules going into effect and some smaller tournaments seemingly being clueless. Saw a 4th grade team play a 6th grade team in one championship. Hopefully, that won't reoccur this year.

well said
player passes should be standard for all travel teams regardless of sport

Have to admit that my kid was one of the kids asked to fill a spot on an established travel team. Walking thru the tournament area with all the tents set up, half the kids know him and know he does not play for the uniform he has on. He looked at me and said he will never do this again. That was one of those moments where you realize your not as wise as you think and maybe the kid has a clue. I will take his advice, never again.

Fortunately this was only a single tournament for your son. I could not imagine holding back my 6th grader and having him walk through the halls for the rest of his academic career in front of kids who know he is "wearing a uniform for a team he doesn't play for."

At the Express tryout a goalie who was a 2018 last year is now a 2019. Give me a break.

I think most people would agree that there should be player ID's except for the win at all cost coaches and little Johnnys dad that likes watching his 6th grader dominate in a 4th grade league...

Yup...he is repeating 8th grade. He was on Terps two years ago, Wolverines last year. He was on his way to Chamminade, but probably was 3 on the 9th grade depth chart.

how many other hold backs does 2019 Express have. Or better yet how many boys born in 2000 or sooner Including Sept - Dec months?

I would like to see lacrosse adopt the same system that youth hockey uses. It is done by your birth year thats it plain and simple. When you play in other parts of the country it doesnt become an issue when the school cut off is. Until then its really just cheating .

what does a player or parent get when we pay for a US Lacrosse #? What is the benefit?

You get that garbage magazine.

I believe hockey teams have a binder that has each kid's Hockey ID and a team roster that can't change every tourney (or mid tourney). Makes sense as does the age thing. That said most hockey players go to juniors before HS so they enter HS at 20 or so, but it is expected. You are allowed to play up but not down. All in all it makes sense, is consistent and is fair. Right now lacrosse has gotten off the rails, there is at least one large national club with regional and national teams that plays musical players so they ensure wins. A few of the kids are playing at two age groups claiming they will take a PG year when they play down.