US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Well I just read rhe above and it could be feasible. Nothing surprises me with the HOCO league this year. Anything is possible. You must be a woman with your oh please. How dainty.

Not feasible at all. Cop out.

At least the Looney's kid is an on age 8th grader. He is playing UP in HS. The Crabs on the other hand - well - we all know their approach.

Yeah. It's the same approach all teams have. Pick the best 23 kids in that grade that show up at tryouts. Sorry more of them don't want to play for your club.

I agree. All the other HOCO elite 2020 teams have roughly the same mix of kids with some on age kids and some holdbacks, except for the Crabs. The Crabs kids that are "technically" 8th graders but are turning 16 just don't belong in the league. Yes none of this will matter next year when these older Crabs players have to compete with players their own size and age. Of course these wonderful Crabs players look good against players 2 years younger. If these older Crabs players were in HS they'd be completely ordinary competing against players their own age.

Two different rules being broken. Breaking one does not make it okay to break the other or try to justify it.

But the fact is that grade base violations, in the true spirit of grade base, is being overlooked yet there are some on here who want to cruse the player and Looney's for them playing the FOGO. Can't have it that way, wither both get called out and changed or leave it alone.

Why? Why compound the mess? He should not be playing. Period. It is no shocker that the number 1 and 2 teams in the elite division are masters at breaking rules. Hmmmm wonder why Hoco lets them get a pass?

Top two but really not that good considering it's holdback central.

Somebody better call for a Wambulance stat. Someone's going to die from this much whining.

. Only Crabs is holdback central with at least 10 holdbacks and 2 double holdbacks. Looney's has maybe 2 or 3 and all for academic reasons. Nothing like Crabs. Where it is their standard operation. Should have your facts correct before spouting out what you think. Also don't forget, all 2020 elite have holdbacks but again, no one is close to Crabs.

or if you are RM - a hamburger

Funny how some dads only can resort to the Crabs guy's waistline. I guess there's nothing else to say if his teams keep beating yours.

And then there is this about Looneys... Hoco should not allow Looneys to be breaking the rules. Applies to the Fogo that plays on a high school team in Florida and flies up for certain games.Whatever your excuse... Looneys is still breaking a rule they dont like.

Truth hurts - he is fat, obnoxious guy who never played the game and games the system by filling his teams with reclassified players. He wins because he cheats. No other reason. On age his 2020 team wouldn't be anywhere near the 2020 elite division.

Lets face it, the guy is a total cheat, manipulator and has a low lacrosse IQ. He is disgusting to watch coach, he belittles his players during the game, yelling thing to them that should not be said to a player.
He is also king of the holdback system. His 2020 team is loaded, and I mean loaded, with at least 10 and a few double holdbacks. His team is funny to watch, they are as big as a high school team. Oh, that's right, the majority of his team should be in high school. How pathetic.
Plus, this guy is overweight, that you can't miss. But I could care less about his weight, I dislike the man for the bad he has brought to youth lacrosse. He is a pathetic individual when it comes to lacrosse. How he is in other areas of his life, I have no idea and don't care. So now all the Crab dads and fans will start their pushback that it isn't true blah blah blah. The parents are just as bad for going along with his lacrosse business operation. All for the money and ego, that is what Ryan is focused on.

The reality is that Hoco could have stood behind their rules with respect to Crabs but caved so he must have some control over their league too.

When you have talented players, you challenge them, not demote them to play younger kids. Talent never plays down. What is wrong with you parents that cannot see your kid is being taken advantage of by a man for his ego and wallet? Who really believes playing down is what a truly talented player, in any sport does? Challenge your kid and they will go a lot further than what is being offered. It's a shame and embarrassment to see so many parents falling prey to this. Never derail your kids life for a sport. Get good grades and play up and more opportunity and money will come their way.

People are moronic. Do you really think they would ban all holdbacks (crabs and others) and the looneys kid in this league? If you are not challenging yourself against the best 8th graders what is the point of being in an "elite" league. You get better by playing against the best.

You are correct that playing up is better for the kids game. But being held back is way way way way better for this college commitment game. And by the list of 2018, and 2019 D1 college commits the Holdback kids and parents are winning this game by a land slide. We can argue that these early commits mean nothing but that is TBD with these new early commit classes. So until these classes of early kids hit the college scene and they have to fail then the holdbacks will slow down or stop, But if these held back kids get to college and play well as a whole then the hold backs will never go anywhere.

Flaw in that logic is the kids in question are not the best. The on age kids playing in the elite brackets are the best. The Looneys, crabs etc. holdbacks just look better because they are currently bigger, stronger, faster but they are also cowards for not being good enough and having to play down against younger kids. The on age kids on their teams are just as bad as they can not win without surrounding themselves with those playing down. Guilty by association. They are being enabled by what is supposed to be an objective league which has proven they have no objectivity when it comes to certain things and teams.

. What you need to realize is that every team in the elite 2020 HOCO division has holdbacks, everyone of them. Crabs has way more than the others, around 12 to 14 while other teams, including Looney's, have about 2 to 3 on average. It doesn't stop there, all 2020 teams have some holdbacks, it is just unfortunately part of the grade base system. So, following your logic, all of these players, holdbacks and on age are all cowards. Sorry, your logic is flawed.

Grade based league with an age cutoff is the simplest solution to put an end to the gaming of the system by a certain few. Eventually this will stop. in the meantime watch how the normal sized (I assume age appropriate) migrate to the 2021 team after HOCO is complete. What a wonderful sport this is....

Don't even try to paint every teams "Holdbacks" with the same brush as the crabs. If there are kids that did a pre-first or started late that is one thing. It is a completely different thing to play on a 2019 and then repeat 8th grade and play on a 2020 team. That is the Crabs way it and that approach is a cowardly way to operate. Grade based with an age cutoff would stop this nonsense,

If a child is over a certain age that is outside the "normal progression" of K, 1,2,3....without repeating a grade and went to school using the ages of the state they reside in, then they have no business playing with kids a year or two younger in a grade based league. No other sport allows this. Most teams would gladly accept an age based restriction on their teams and have nothing to fear as they have only one holdback, maybe two so to lose those kids would not impact the success rate of the their overall team. Teams that take advantage of the system can not say that so they attack the approach that demonstrates good sportsmanship and character constantly.

LOL. My son is in college now and we played against Crabs many times when club lacrosse was age based for youth. Without holdbacks, the Crabs were just as excellent then as they are now. They get great talent and they coach them well.

It's one thing to complain about the holdbacks that are everywhere in lax nowadays. But singling out Crabs is just about jealousy. FCA, Madlax, Looney's, et al. have just as many holdbacks. As does Duke's, Mesa and other clubs.

LOL. No other team games the system like Crabs. Looneys and FCA are not even close in terms of the sheer number of holdbacks. Don't even try to deflect that others do it to....

Without holdbacks Crabs 2020 would be mediocre at best.

You're an idiot. A lot of the Crabs holdbacks were previously on the 2019 team as they were playing up a grade(or two). Very few of the kids on Crabs 2020 this year are repeating 8th grade this year. There are just as many, if not more, 8th grade repeats on other teams than Crabs.

You have no idea what you are talking about so you just make stuff up. All teams in 2020 Elite have holdbacks. All of them. Trying to rationalize that Crabs has more so they are the ones cheating is stupid. If they are cheating, all the teams are cheating. There is no number of holdbacks that make it ok or not ok. You can't be a little bit pregnant.

Thank you. People act like Crabs started playing Club lacrosse three years ago when it went grade-based. Crabs has been the best club in Maryland, without question, for at least a decade. Saying they only win because of holdbacks is just an excuse for why teams lose to them. What was their excuse when it was age based and Crabs beat them?

More holdbacks than Crabs? Are you out of your mind? There is a difference when a kid did pre-first vs. systematically platoon reclassifying kids after they have played a full year in 8th grade. Look what they did at Beach Lax and look what happened In Denver without their holdbacks. Many kids on the 2020 team will be on the 2021 team in the summer. It's just how fat crab rolls. Own it.

Well you answered your own question. We did not talk bad about them when it was age based. We just said man that team is really really good. Now we say they are really really old and it sucks to lose to kids 2 years older then me.

You can hate the Crabs, but that is a stupid statement. Without the kids who were heldback, the Crabs were the best team out there except for 91 Crush.

Rail against grade base youth teams, holdbacks, etc. But saying that the Crabs 2020 team would suck without the holdbacks is idiotic.

They are not second only to crush without their holdbacks. They have had ot and one point games when using their holdbacks which means without holdbacks jsut another good team. Try it and see what happens.

This has been discussed before but I guess we need to point it out again. The Denver team lost to a couple of teams in the weeks leading up the world series. Without holdbacks they would still be a very good team but part of a large group of very good 2020 teams. Holdbacks make a huge difference, to claim the they would be just as good without them is delusional. Denver was proof of that.

He did answer his own question ..and he totally doesn not get the anger directed at Crabs. It is due to the allowing holdbacks in youth lacrosse. Crabs have always had good talent.
But when club lacrosse exploded in MD. Crabs took advantage of Grade base and MIAA prefirst/holdbacks. Many find the allowing of select kids (prefirst/holdback) in Youth lacrosse totally against all that youth athletics stand for. many feel the Crabs are a HUGE proponent of it. Expect this to continue to be an issue as no other sport is even close to allowing select kids play down due to holding them back. Youth Lacrosse is a cesspool right now due to this.

You sir are way beyond being an idiot. Crabs 2020 is loaded with holdbacks, by everyone's count 10 and 2 double holdbacks. Don't even try and give us this BS that present players played up on the 2019 team, that never happened and never will happen in the Crab organization. One of the double holdbacks, a middie, played 2 years on 2019 and now he is on the 2020 team. Most of Crabs repeat 7th grade, like the kid from Severn who transferred to BL and repeated 7th grade.
There is no other 2020 elite team that has anywhere near the amount of holdbacks than Crabs has. It is the way Ryan M works and manipulates the grade base system, both for his ego and money.
The Crabs organization is the cesspool of youth lacrosse and their leader and the parents are all in the cesspool with Ryan. But your [lacrosse] statements railing about other clubs and pushing it away from Crabs is typical for a Crabs parent/fan.
We all know the story of Crabs, the number of holdbacks on the 2020 team and most people can name the players and their ages. Some are 16 or about to turn 16 this spring. How pathetic, 16 year olds playing against 13 and 14 year olds. Must make you proud. Don't try to cover it up, we know what is happening and we know the truth. Now, do you want to start on Crabs 2021 team?

That's easy, when is was age base I am sure Ryan McClernan had it figured out how to cheat and get around that system also. That man cannot do an honest thing when it comes to Crabs and youth lacrosse.

No it isn't, it is a correct statement. Without holdbacks Crabs 2020 would be playing in the 2020A division because if they played in 2020 elite without holdbacks they would get the crap beat out of them. Face the truth and try to live in the real world.

What was the score in Denver last summer 19 to 2 or something like that. Crabs without holdbacks were completely embarrassed by an on age team. Just proves the point, without holdbacks Crabs is just average at best.

I though one of the reasons we went to a grade base system was because 15u, 13u, and 11u had the same age related issues....Is this new rule from US lacrosse now going to have us make teams at 15u,14u,13u,12u,11u etc....How is that going to work? How can them make club teams comply with that?