US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Crabs Lacrosse / Baltimore Lacrosse Club

The BL kid is also a 2020 that played up the past two seasons.

when they were u13 u15 they couldn't have done what they did last weekend. at least half of their team would have been required to play u15. the holdbacks, reclassers just got and extra year at u15 prior to the change to grade.

imo grade based not that big a deal if it's just a few per team that are summer birthdays. of course someone will push the envelope in order win. anyone who watched the crabs-91 game that has an average sized, age appropriate 2020 is wondering if they need to reclass to 2021 for their to compete at the highest levels. Hopefully most would resist the insanity but sadly this will only feed the beast - here in MD and elsewhere. Directors of leading clubs like Crabs and others should consider what's best for the game not just what's best for their club.

most kids on Looneys and FCA were also playing on rec teams until this year. Hoco league was built to coexist with rec. also all games in hoco are on turf fields in howard county, staffed with someone to do time/scoreboard. even though it may not be as competitive top to bottom - it is an easy league to play in from a coach/director admin perspective. you just show up - hoco parks and rec takes care of everything else

Bethesda 2020 finished 4th in the AA NPYLL, losing to the Crabs (2x), Hawks and Breakers. Beat Madlax. MDX plays in the NPYLL B division. Bethesda lost 7-6 to FCA at the beach and 6-5 to Roughriders in good close games. They are in the top 10.

Arguing about who is in the "Top 10" for kids going into 8th grade says a lot about you posters.

Lighten up, it's fun and harmless.

Hanging out in this place says a lot about all of us.

According to the NPYLL site the Crabs outscored their opponents in the NPYLL 105-25 after running the table in the regular season. Scores of 15-8, 14-1, 15-1, 13-2, 16-3, 22-3 and 10-7.
15 of those goals against were from two teams (Breakers/Hawks). I guess cheaters do prosper.

I did not know my son who is born on 08-31-99 and will be playing his junior year in HS could play U15 club this summer. I am pretty sure he would be a great AA player as he played Varsity as a Sophomore. Hold back players, Guest players. I am learning a lot from the lacrosse under belly. Thank you. BTW whose holding back their 3 year old so he can get a D1 scholarship? The line starts at the left.

How did they cheat? Because they beat people with a team that didn't violate any rules?

If you knew anything about the NPYLL, 50% of those games at any level are complete blowouts.

Can he play in Denver?

With no age restrictions no rules were broken, that is the crux of the problem here. They'll have even more holdbacks next season. Are those 9th/10th graders really learning anything winning 15-1?

Many HOCO games are good. Maybe NYPLL is not a good league.

HoCo is an inferior league with inferior teams. Everyone knows that. Sorry you can't admit that, FCA dad.

Nice of you to chime in. Problem is that many people have done what you say. I have written to MYLA, USL, and Even the stupid HOCO league that got grade base started a couple years ago. What a bunch of ignorant people in Howard County Rec who dreamed up the idea of Grade base league. They are a public organization that caters to the holdbacks. Wonder why??? You would think a public Rec Department in Howard County would be age base like all their other programs???? Everyone that lives in Howard County should be writing to their rep or whoever. I continue to write the USL and give my opinion.
Everyone should constantly write to different agencies.

You are are seriously advocating writing to your local Congressman?

Major LOL. You have topped yourselves, if that's even possible.

No mister ignorant. Howard County Rec Department is a county agency. Your local Howard County Rep has something to do with it. Let the higher ups of the Rec department know what their county employees have done to youth lacrosse in Howard County.
I bet the Rec planners of the lacrosse league had some specific reason to go grade base instead of age base like EVERY OTHER sport team in youth athletics is in Howard County.I suspect their bosses have no idea. Maybe call them out. Maybe their boss can ask why. Get it..or lets do like you and have a big LOL!! or better yet just write comments here and do nothing else. LOL

No need for one league to trash the other - I'm glad we have both.

Unfortunately there is a huge gap between the best and the worst in AA. Clearly a few teams in AA that did not belong there but they are only in 7th grade, hopefully the spreads will be smaller as they get older.

My kid is on one of the better teams, they enjoyed every game, that's what counts. As long as they win with class and humility.

Would be nice to see a NPYLL - HoCo championship - with an age cutoff!!!

Writing to your representative is every American' s right, my point was turning the energy to that instead of the constant back and forth on here which results in nothing. If it is that grievous and safety is an issue(which it is) and no one at USL is listening why wouldn't you go to the next step. I dont think the issue will ever be resolved by calling each other names on a public forum.

It would be nice if they took the top 4 from each league and had them play in a league the following year.

That would just cause problems. The 9 10 team would feel left out. We can't have that.

They could play in their own conference. Top four move the following year.

I agree parents have a voice. I'm thinking letters, emails and calls to the insurance carriers would be far more successful. Pointing out safety issues, sending visual proof- photos and lists of tournaments that this practice happens in might change the landscape. Any personal injury lawyer could probably make a good case within a few phone calls, I'm sure there are plenty of parents out there that can do so. Insurance companies are businesses and bottom line is money. They don't want to have to pay out.

then go after the clubs that encourage it. Non profit my butt.

There is a Saturday league now in Baltimore called the MPLL - it would be nice if the HOCO teams and NPYLL teams both played in that league. Then we'd get all the match ups we're looking for. Koopers set the league up and all of the games were at St. Pauls this year - a few bumps along the way but overall it was a very successful league.

Good Point - Top 10 Updated:

1. Crabs
2. Breakers
3. Looneys
4. FCA
5. Hawks
6. Diamondback
7. Rough Riders
8. Bethesda
9. MadLax
10. Thunder

How many of these teams do NOT use holdbacks??

I am not that mad about the whole thing and my son has been push down a few spots by reclassed kids. But if someone where to need a signature to help this get fixed, it would not be hard for me to sign the list. I am at the annoyed level not fighting mad about it. But please fix this people who are really really mad about it.

Who provides insurance at tournaments, these tournaments and leagues have some type of insurance? If a hockey club or rink don't follow US Hockey guidelines, U.S. Hockey pulls their insurance.

Breakers, FCA, and Rough Riders 2020 teams were in MPLL this spring.

Can't say but line any of these teams up next to the Crabs and the size difference is striking.

US Lacrosse is insured by Markel Insurance. As the above poster mentioned - a letter to them pointing out the issue and the financial risk it puts them in is the most likely way to get some action. An easy fix would be grade based requirement with an age cut off. One injury sustained by a smaller/younger player inflicted by an older (in some cases 2 or 3 years) would be a goldmine for a personal injury lawyer. Thoughts on this approach?

This may work to change the policy language on the coverage but the tournament would change the waivers advising teams of the guidelines. The wavier would continue to advise fraud or material misrepresentation on rosters or application would nullify coverage. This would put the club, and coach as risk if their intent was to conceal the age of a player. The first injury would set the precedent. The discovery may be tedious and the injury would have to be severe in order for the suit to be brought. Legal fees could be staggering and compensation for the family may be small. Teams could go bankrupt and then all is for nothing and the owner would just start another club with a new name.

So were the Diamondbacks. Just need to get Looneys, Hawks, and Bethesda in there.

Holding back kids, now known as 're-classifying', is just a fact of life and has been around for quite a while at all levels of schooling. Even in college, kids can play MCLA to delay their 4 year clock from starting or go to a prep school before college. Some kids do pre-1st and then hold-back in middle school just before high school resulting in some being old enough to drive to themselves to school in their freshman year of high school. Interestingly, my son attended a 3d camp this past winter and a big recommendation from their recruiting seminar was to 're-classify'. If you have the means, your son doesn't mind prolonging his academic life and D1 lacrosse is that "important", you'll probably be doing the same.

However, talent and age are two different factors and a more talented kid will always overcome one who is a year or 2 older. This is also evidenced by younger kids (or kids who are age appropriate for a higher grade) playing up on older teams for better competition.

But make note holding kids back is a practice that is here to stay as 'tilting the field to your advantage' is not exclusive to lacrosse but life in general because you'll always be competing with someone for something like a job, promotion, sale, etc.. And more than likely, one will have certain advantages over the other that will be cashed-in, thus doing whatever necessary to close the deal.

If you really want to make a difference, start by going after the venues like schools and municipalities. If the games are on public fields, start with a few letters to the town, county or school that own and operate them. Find out who the insurance carriers are. Let those insurance companies know what's happening on the fields they insure. If the town, county or schools are knowingly allowing disparate age sporting contests, that could endanger the well being of children, there may be some liability there. If the municipality deems they are exposed by allowing age lopsided sporting events that could cause injury to participants, you may be able to force teams to comply with age based rules. One has to ask, why would a municipality or a school allow itself to be part in parcel to potentially negligent behavior? I can assure you, insurance companies do not like excess risk.

in other words it's a dog eat dog world and some of us (and our kids) are wearing milk bone underwear.

I tried to post the link to the photo earlier but apparently that's not allowed. If you want to see the hilarity of the size differences with holdbacks on the Crabs vs regular kids at 2020 then take a look at the MD Rough Riders Instagram page.

Crabs, across the board, is the best club lacrosse program in the world. Sorry.

I'd like to the crabs field teams without holdbacks and see how great they are...

Results would be dramatically different

You will see that on July 4th, live on national television, assuming they make the playoffs. Should be quite a humbling experience for them.

Liberal Jacka$$ statement.