Figured starting a post about the upcoming season and thoughts on the state of college lacrosse.

Really liked the introductory lead ESPN did on Hampton U but no live coverage of the game - on any of their outlets. Calculated move, so no one see they need work... or didn't think they would get the viewership.

Loyola over Virginia. First upset of the year.

Not really an upset, Virginia overrated, has lousy offense, and doesn't recruit a decent fogo. Will only get worse.

Hey that early recruiting really helping them huh??

You have a better chance of seeing big foot at a syracuse game, then an 18 year old freshmen, what a disgrace.

Stars is getting exactly what he deserves. Made me sick with that Hypocritical speech about early recruiting he made!

Lol love that comment and so true. Most of these rosters on certain teams loaded with 19 and 20 yr old freshman. Pathetic! This game I loved has really lost my respect.

and you know this how? they dont publish bdays on Cuse site. They have a freshman starting on D thats a legit 2015 from West Genny. Im not sure what your point is, all of the D1 programs are loaded with kids who reclassed or did a PG year. Its the way it is and the way it always will be, tell your kid to get in the gym, get good grades and work hard and it wont matter how old the kid is across from him

Spoken like a true Maryland cheater, You have to work harder while we game the system. Of course the kid from 'cuse is a true '15 He's from N.Y.

Coming from a reclassified parent who gamed the system. I have more integrity then that. I'm sorry and you think it's right?

His contract is up at the end of the season and he wasn't extended. Worst case he's already done, best case he's auditioning this year for a new contract. They haven't made the 4 team ACC tournament since the new format started and they haven't won an ACC league came in 3 years. I'd say the problems go well beyond recruiting early and poorly at this point. Right now they look like a team that has no chance to win an ACC game and no chance against Hop, G'town or Drexel (which is up next). Richmond is a much improved team/program. I would not be stunned to see UVA lose to them too. It looks grim in C'ville now.

Think Virginia needs to re-think their approach. Have not done so well on many avenues the last few years. Could it be time for a change?

I dont think its right or wrong, its up to every parent to do whats right for their child. Also you can jump on your soapbox all day about integrity or you can accept that this is the way it is or you can cry and whine and be passed by. If your son is a good player and has good grades it doesnt matter how old he is, he will find his spot. There are certain circumstances where reclassifying is completely legitimate and is in the best interest of the kid. Obviously there are those who abuse the system as is the case in every aspect of our society, but not every kid who is held back or reclassifies is a "cheater" and it has nothing to do with integrity. Nice try though.

Sorry to disappoint, but not from Maryland and not a cheater. I have news for you, take a look at your beloved St. Anthony's and Chaminade rosters, youll find plenty of holdbacks and reclasses there too. The Prep schools are full of them as well. Oh and you can cry and whine about Maryland holdbacks and reclasses but I dont think anything rivals the rampant favoritism, nepotism, and money grabbing that goes on with the Long Island Club and High School lacrosse scene and I would defy anyone to say otherwise. Simply put it doesnt matter how old you are, if you play for the right club and go to the right school you get into the right showcases and you get recruited to the right schools, plain and simple.

Dont understand Virginias recruiting philosophy at all. Obviously not paying off now. Its not early recruiting thats the issue, their recruiting as a whole hasnt been ACC worthy last few years.

No one is more critical of St Anthonys and Chaminade than me. Blast them every chance I get. Can't stand the Express either. The CHSAA is a travesty and disgrace. The Big 2 only care about themselves and could care less about the rest of the teams in the league they play. They'd rather have 200 kids try out and cut them, than have them go to any one of the other CHSAA schools. However, name the hold backs and reclasses. You seem to imply direct knowledge. The crab eaters are no different than the likes of Laxachusetts where supposed 8th graders are 6-3 and 185 pounds. Admit to gaming the system. I'd have more respect for you.

We are talking 21 year old freshmens, my kids in the
Gym, good grades and going d1 in age loser.

There is one goalie at Chaminade that has "reclassed", and his parents and the school was admonished for it on this site. Aside from that one I know of no other player, boy or girl, "reclassed" on Long Island. To say our prep schools are filled with them shows that you are from Md., Pa. or Mass. because we really don't have any on the Island. The truth is you have to cheat to compete with our kids, but I really don't blame you for gaming the system, that lies with the coaches and the N.C.A.A. Both have shown just how hypercritical they are by allowing "holdbacks" or "reclasss" men compete against true freshman while espousing the virtue of good sportsmanship and fairness. Both of these lying entities will look into a kids past to expose any infraction they might have committed, or any failing, or unsuitable grade, but refuse to take on the blatant cheating, unsportsman like, and unfair practice of "reclassing". If a child at any age repeats a grade for any reason other than failing grades, or was able to meet admission criteria set forth by the college, but goes to a prep school to gain advantage in athletics, should be seen as cheating and a year of eligibility should be taken away, in all sports, for every year above the national average of all H.S. graduates. But the N.C.A.A will not because they don't really care about good sportsmanship or fairness

Freshmens? lol. Just wondering, if your kid is all squared away why are you so concerned about what other kids are doing and drunk posting at 1:00 am?

Starsia has not been offered a contract renewal and now we are into the season where the coaches do not have a contract beyond the season. I think the signal that sends speaks for itself.

Yes I have direct knowledge, but no I dont think posting kids names on an open forum is a good idea.

So if you mean pulling my kid out of a corrupt and political high school and getting him away from the toxic Long Island club lacrosse scene, then yes I am guilty of "gaming" the system. He is currently at a prep school where he is thriving, and will graduate as an 18 yr old and is committed to a mid D1 school. I simply dont understand why everyone is so concerned about what other people are doing and the decisions they are making for THEIR children.

Oh and if you are so concerned about who the holdbacks and repeaters are, just do a little research, not hard to do.

Additionally, take a look at D1 rosters sometime and take note of the birthdates if they are posted, every single D1 roster is chock full of 19 and 20 year old freshman. College coaches dont care and frankly I think many encourage reclassifying and PG years. Take a look at Dukes 2018 commits, pretty much exemplifies whats going on.

What happened with the C goalie? What do you mean by "reclassed" in this context? Dropped down in club? Disappeared after 8th grade for a year?

Ok so this post is as fundamentally flawed and wrong as I have ever seen. Unless you are specifically talking about a certain age group which I am not aware of, Long Island is filled with holdbacks and reclassed kids, not to mention the amount of kids that will do PG years. When I said Prep schools, I was referring to the CT, NJ, PA, MA, and Upstate NY prep school where I would say the average age of a Senior is 19. See for yourself and look at the birthdays of the kids picked for the Under Armour Underclass games.

As for the NCAA, college coaches dont care about reclassifying or holdbacks, they actually encourage it whenever possible. It has always been that way and I dont think it will ever change. The power to penalize a kid for reclassifying will never rest with the NCAA, they cant even police themselves.

Take a look at the Team USA U19 roster and look at the birthdays and what schools and club programs theyre from and that will tell you all you need to know about the system and how it works.

Let's be careful not to name names or identify a player, but in NYS when the 2019 class of HS went to school the breakpoint threshold was Dec. 2001 so any current player at Chaminade with a birthday in NYS prior to dec 2001 is a holdback. I don't care if you say he wasn't ready and you held him back. You held him back from being in the back of the pack so he would be in the front of the pack with one "extra" year to assimilate. You held him back so he would gain an advantage.

I get it had you not have held him back. He would not have made it into Chaminade

So you sent your kid to prep school , to miss out on seeing mom and dad everyday, a chance to play HS ball with the same kids and best friends since 2nd grade, I hope it was worth you telling everyone that your kid committed to a low end D1 program. I think with your good HS name he have did better staying.

Obviously you have no idea what youre saying. I see my son plenty and he still is friends with the kids that matter. I didnt send him to prep school to brag to people about where he committed, which was completely his decision. He went to prep school to do exactly what the name implies, prep for the next level, which was not even close to happening at his previous high school. Additionally for the record, he committed to an extremely well respected school and lacrosse program that is competitive in a very well respected conference. Lastly as to his previous high school having a "good" name; although they may be considered a "power", their reputation among college coaches is not very good so he most certainly is a lot better off where he is now, but thank you for your misguided and misinformed concern.

If he is doing a post grad year, he is moving on just like kids he graduated from HS that opted to go to college. Northeast boarding schools are full of post grad kids, in all sports, football basketball, lacrosse, etc.
I know quite a few Nassau HS boys who went the post grad prep route.

Myles Jones
Justin Guterding
Rob Pannell
Brian Willets

Just to name a few that went the PG route at New England Prep schools. So call it what you want, holdback, reclassed, PG, but it all ends up the same, kids end up 19-20 year old freshmen.

"I have news for you, take a look at your beloved St. Anthony's and Chaminade rosters, youll find plenty of holdbacks and reclasses there too."

Complete and utter BS

I could care less about 19 year old freshmen in college. Its the 16 year old 9th graders that I have the biggest problem with. Loved seeing the fully bearded player from FCA at the U-15 championships. At least his coach could have instructed him to shave. Or the club teams that put the graduating year on the back of their jerseys. LOL We would all much rather see their birthdays displayed. Then we could all truly judge just how good that "phenom" really is.

Brown,Powell, Gait,Thompson,Lowe.......12 of the greats.......0 prep schools attended. tell me again about your meager list of players that attended prep

Agreed, by 18-19 the good players will show themselves and make an immediate impact in college. Many freshman have done this. Being 16 in 9th grade is a whole different animal. It's called a weasel.

Sorry to inform you but the U15 National championships are the one event that is age verified, so unless you are accusing the kid of forging his birth certificate or using someone elses, that argument doesnt fly. The issue with FCA is how they brought in kids from all over the country that were not FCA club players, so they basically loaded the roster to win the tourney. I do agree about the 16 year old 9th graders but unfortunately unless US lacrosse and the tournament organizers start going to age based play, that wont change either.

The four players mentioned earlier attended prep schools for academic/admissions reasons.

Everyone knows who you are and why you did it, please don 't spin it any other way.

I think the point being missed is these players PG'd yes but they played age appropriate youth ball. The trend is now to hold back and repeat so young men are playing children on the travel circuit which in turn has created such disdain for the PG players. If its about getting into a better school I would PG my own son only after he has completed his youth ball and was done with high school. I just wouldnt have him play down in youth travel.In college soccer American players are in competition with many foreign players who are sometimes 3 to 4 years older as freshmen.

I sincerely doubt that, but if youre so sure you know feel free to come find me and we can discuss it over a beer, I welcome the discussion.

How did a forum about the 2016 college season so quickly become another discussion about reclassing?

I was talking about prep school dad.

How did Hofstra get to be such a non-entity in the NCAA Div 1 Lacrosse scene?

Right on point!!!! Pannell and Jones didn't miraculously go from 2019 to 2020 one summer. They did the PG year AFTER they had been recruited as on age players.

Same for Willets

Because it is tainting the entire sport. Lacrosse is a joke now due to all the entitlement mentality.

The original discussion was because someone was crying about how Cuse didnt have any 18 year old freshman on their roster. So to me, it doesnt matter if a kid did a PG, reclassed or was a kindegarten holdback, the end result is the same, a large majority of lacrosse players will be 19-20 years old when they start school. (oh and not to mention that unless you were born in the 2nd half of the year, youre going to turn 19 in your freshman year anyway) This is a completely separate argument from the reclassing situation. If someone is reclassing their kid for the sole purpose of gaining an advantage for athletic reasons, obviously this is an issue and I believe there are ways to take that out of the sport if US Lacrosse, the clubs, and the tournament organizers take the steps necessary, which likely will never happen. Kids being 6 months to 1 year older when they start college is not a big deal, being 1 year older when your 13-14 is a big deal and it does create an advantage, people need to make that distinction.

Entitlement mentality? A little dramatic no? People need to worry more about their own kids and their own behavior and less about what other people are deciding to do with THEIR children. The sport has problems like every other sport and I am sure at some point some of these issues will be addressed. The sport is growing and if your son is doing what hes supposed to be doing on the field and in the classroom he will find a spot. All the whining and crying is not going to help him get where he is going.

I mostly agree, a kid doing a P.G. year is no harm. My problem is when you guys do pre first (1 year older) reclass in 8th grade (2 years older), and then do a P.G. (3 years older) putting a man of 21 turning 22 as a freshman, at that age they should be graduating, and is cheating no matter how you look at it at any level. With my theory that 21 year old frosh could only have 1 year eligibility

Whole heartedly agree.

Lacrosse is a minor sport in the college sports world, unless it's football or basketball it costs the school more than it takes in. I have been to plenty of lacrosse games and I have never seen more than 3,000 people. Put lacrosse in its proper place, a nice sport, that kids enjoy, a $ loser for most schools in D1. So to all the people sobbing over the "holdbacks" and PG kids, get past it. How is it so different from a redshirt year? Leave the holdback nonsense out of EVERY discussion on this site. Let's talk college lacrosse and what teams look good so ealy in the season.

Ok so lets get to some real lacrosse. Did anyone catch the Navy-Hopkins stream last Tuesday night? Great game overall, but again the game was ruined by the atrocious officiating. I dont know what the thinking is with these officials but it seems that if two players make any kind of contact they are throwing flags for illegal body checks. Lacrosse is a contact sport and for some unknown reason they are trying to take hitting out of the game. In the Navy-Hopkins game, that call at the end of the 1st OT ended up costing Navy the game.

They needed to make that call. Can't have Hopkins losing their first game, and dropping out of the rankings!

Rank the best D1 colleges in NY

Im not a big conspiracy guy but that sure looked like those refs were intentionally trying to have Hopkins win the game.

They were!

In terms of lacrosse only, academics only, or both and are we factoring in cost?

Lacrosse only

That was harder than I thought

1. Syracuse
2. Cornell (although if we are talking this year I would move Cornell to 4th)
3. Albany
4. Stony Brook
5. Army
6. Colgate
7. Hofstra
8. Marist
9. St Johns
10. Hobart
11. Binghamton
12. Siena
13. Canisus
14. Wagner
15. Manhattan

Hard to argue with those rankings.

Biggest surprises. How are Hofstra and Binghamton not consistently better?

I agree, why is.it? I would think with all the local talent they would be able to keep kids home.

Admittedly biased since my guy is going to Albany, but really hadn't realized how strong the SUNY system had gotten since seeing a bunch of commercials during the presidential debates.

Lots of local kids want to get away for college, and while I don't know as much about Binghamton as I do UA and Stony Brook, if you are a NY resident those schools, lacrosse aside, are amazing deals in a day an age where undegrad degrees have lost a lot of luster.

On top of that you get the chance to play some big time lacrosse.

It's always been that way, I have hired numerous SUNY grads over the years. They seem to be better well rounded candidates with out having everything been handed to them in life. Just my opinion I'm not a SUNY grad just my observations over the years.

Thanks, SUNY grad.

Like I said not a SUNY grad but you don't believe me anyway, so your welcome. You actually help support what I wrote based on your comment. So I in turn thank you.

Cost versus bang for your buck.

1.Is the school one of the best for lacrosse and an elite academic school.
2. Is the school in the upper tier of education and mediocre in lacrosse or vice versa.

These play important rolls in the selection process. Historically Cornell, Army, and Syracuse fall into these categories. Hobart also not as much now but in the past Hobart was once an elite lacrosse school. You cant compare many of the NY schools to the other state schools with in state tuition like
Michigan $27,000 in state room and board versus out of state $57,000
Penn State 34,00 in state room board versus out of state 48,000
University of Virginia in state tuition of $15,016 room and board versus out of state $41,720

Now NY Schools
Syracuse $57,00 for both in state and out of state
Cornell $64,000 for both in state and out of state
Hofstra $39,000 for both in state and out of state
Albany $20,500 in state room and board versus out of state $29,000
Army free but not for the majority of students takes a special person

These are just some examples as to why Long Island kids leave and go to these other schools. its also why many elite players stay in their state to play at one of their schools. This is just my opinion but all things I am taking into consideration for my son.

Very strange that Hofstra isnt able to recruit better and be consistently in the Top 20, I think when it comes down to it, they just dont do a good job of recruiting, plain and simple. Couple that with the fact that many Long Island kids just dont want to stay home. I think you could say the same for Rutgers. Rutgers is a great school that plays in the Big 10 and is located in striking distance of NY, PA, CT, MA and obviously NJ. I can tell you that from my own experience with their coaching staff (they were looking at my son), that I really dont understand their recruiting philosophy at all. You would think they would be able to draw top recruits from all the states mentioned as well as athletes from non traditional areas. Addtionally with them being in the Big10 with Hopkins, Maryland, Penn State, Michigan and Ohio State, they better start doing a better job recruiting or they will be in the bottom of that conference every year.

As for Binghampton, I can only speculate that the reason they have trouble recruiting is the lcoation of the school. It truly is in the middle of nowhere and pretty cold with lots of snow. Great school and inexpensive for NY State residents, so Im not really sure why they cant attract kids from all over NYS.

I wondered the same about Rutgers for both men and women.

Look at the options that the top lacrosse players on the island have.

Princeton
Harvard
Yale
Penn
Cornell
Brown
Dartmouth
Duke
Hopkins
Notre Dame
Virginia
Carolina
Penn State
Maryland
Ohio State
Boston University
Syracuse
Villanova
Loyola
Georgetown
Bucknell
Lehigh
Richmond
Army
Navy
Air force

The top 50 or so players on the Island will all have many great option. There is a very diverse group of schools to choose from for the top players. The coaches at schools like Hofstra, Stony Brook, Binghamton all have to work extra hard and think out of the box when it comes to recruiting if they want to compete for the best kids on the island.

FYI - 3 of Cornell's 7 college's are SUNY (Ag and Life Sciences, ILR and Human Ecology) and offer in state students a nice discount, somewhere around $20k

haven't heard great things about their coach. Now his freshmen son is also there and heard he's not ready for prime time.

Many good points posted above as to why players leave L.I. to play. I would agree that the list of schools the top 50 kids could mostly likely play at is impressive. However I would think that the coach has something to do with it. I understand the local coaches have to work extra hard to keep local talent. Hofstra is not an elite academic school but it's not a terrible school. Not all the top players can qualify to attend some of the schools listed above. This is where the coach comes in. Players have to want to play for them. I don't think that is the case at Hofstra.
As for the post regarding his son playing for him, leave the kid out of it. I have seen him play. He will not be the worst on the roster if that is what you were implying by saying he is not yet ready for prime time. He has talent.

Hofstra coach's son is not on roster yet, next year. Binghamton coach's son is a freshman at Binghamton. Think you may be confused.

Hofstra son is a stand out player who could have gone anywhere he wanted. Will bring a lot to the Hofstra program. Comming from a Smithown parent who has followed the kid.

Massapeua has some talented kids, they might surprise
Some people.

Was talking about Binghamton. Wasn't talking about Tierney. Everyone knows them.

Binghampton coaches son was chosen as an Under Armour All American and he was the leading scorer in the history of his high school. Why people feel the need to come on this board and knock 18 year old kids who have busted their butts to get where they are Ill never understand.

Stonybrook looking good so far. Brody Eastwood is the real deal, fun to watch!

Called jealousy, know it well!

If you are at Binghamton on the lacrosse roster, I would imagine everyone has a pretty good high school resume and "busted their butts" . Is Vestal a lacrosse powerhouse? And not knocking an 18 year old, wondering if a 5-9 150 pound freshmen would be playing over upper classmen, but oh yeah, his father happens to be the HC. That's the kind of stuff that gives parents of potential recruits pause. Now we can move on.

Don't put down Hofstra academics to much, Bobby Axelrod graduated from Hofstra and look at him now.

Right questioning that. Because you have to be 6 foot now in order to be good and play division 1 lacrosse.

So did Bernie Madoff

Is Matt Kavanaugh 6 foot?

There are always exceptions. If you are shorter than 5'9 your skills have to be that much better to be an impact player. Is your son the next Matt Kavanaugh?

Is Vestal Chaminade?

Sanky,Matheis,Donohue, Cannizarro etc....There are plenty of kids who are great who are 5'9" and under! If you can play it you will find a spot! Sports is all about match ups! As great as JJ Watt is he would have a tough time covering Wes Welker or Darre Sproles!

I only know Tierney kid, and believe me you will eat
Your words big time, the kid works is [lacrosse] off and can
Play.will be all American this year for sure.

Do some research before you talk nonsense........Just for example, Duke currently has 17 players listed on their roster under 6ft tall, so I guess they arent good, Duke just took them because they wanted to be nice to short kids? Notre Dame has 16 under 6ft. Cuse has a 5'9 pole starting this year.

Nobody said Vestal is Chaminade, but Vestal is a solid program that plays in a solid section in Upstate NY.

Is Chaminade Boys Latin? Or Haverford for that matter? I think not

it will not be that way for long. As more athletes enter the system the bigger young men will prevail.

Victor will beat all the long island teams and be state Champions again. The difference is they go out and play lacrosse, not whine on botc

Chaminade is coming off a relatively unimpressive year, and is still ranked ahead of Boys' Latin in the preseason rankings.

Boys Latin isn't going to be that good this year. 5th or 6th in MIAA. By the way, where do you think that many of those re-class holdbacks go? BL

It was sarcastic about me saying you have to be 6 ft in order to play. Best attackman are still the small guys and will continue. But it does seem these college coaches want size now. I know a few 2019 attack who are small and can bring it but the bigger kids are getting the looks. Maybe because they are physically more mature right now.

Is this the College Lax Thread?

Hofstra does an absolutely horrible job recruiting. I think too many favors for undeserving "connected" athletes are catching up to them. Not trying to take anything away from some of the fine athletes that they recruited. I would knock them down the list a bit. Don't see anything changing this year or anytime soon.

I think Lacrosse and the people that play it are changing. I believe in the next 10 years we will see bigger kids playing and being recruited. There will always be the exceptions but size is coming with more and more kids playing. Most teams would rather have a bigger fast guy than a smaller fast guy. Hopefully I am wrong as we need a sport for the 5 ft 10 and under white guy.

It's called D3, and the shorter kid will have a better education and job.
The top D3 schools are great lax programs and can beat a lot of the mid to lower D1 schools.

If your talking middie and defense, yes. All other positions are about skill level and size is not as important provided you are performing. That means scoring, goals, winning face offs, saving goals. Even the NFL and NBA will have shorter skilled players on the roster.

You think a face off guy can be smaller? Really?

As a former D1 all American defenseman you couldn't be more wrong. There will always be a spot for the small quick players. Extremely hard to cover. On the other hand the big quick guys are much easier. And I was a big quick player.

Hello??? Ever hear of Trevor Baptiste?? #1 guy in the NCAA as a Freshman. He's 5'9"'

youth lacrosse is moved from town/pal/rec to club. The cost of participation in advanced youth lacrosse went from $100-200/yr to $1000-$2000/yr and up. This alone will keep the 5'10 in play

Built like a brick s-house. Legs like tree trunks! Not a small guy at all.

75% of future FOGOs will have a wrestling background...

Yes, and he's 5'9" and dominant. As a matter of fact 11 players on Denver roster are 5'9" Or under. 2 of which are clear game changers directory contributimg to the NCAA championship. Seems like the small guys aren't going anywhere

Baptiste is not small! Sorry! Short but not small. Small guys are going the way of the dinosaur. Unfortunately as so many of you know already, size does matter!

He's 5-9, 215. The dumbest people are the ones that think they're smart but are really morons. The original comment was about a 5-9 150 attackman who happens to be the coaches son. Please try and focus.

Yes but how many 5' 9" guys are listed as 6'. Size inflation happens all the time. I met Doug Flutie who was listed as 5'9" but if he was 5' 6", I would be surprised. Depends on how far they can stretch it.

The only thing a good coach will care about (regarding lacrosse) is:

"Can the kid play?". By that I mean does he get the job done?

If you are undersized you better be really good. If you are slow you better be able to do something better than everyone else.

Coaches look at a lot of things. IQ, character, skill, work ethic, attitude, passion, coachability, athleticism, Size, speed, competitiveness, etc...

At the end of the day the kids that will play are the ones who get the job done and have now off field setbacks.

If your kid is 5' 9'' and really good he will be fine. If your kid is 6' 2'' with big muscles, slow feet, weak skills and a poor attitude he better find another sport.

spot on

I know one ivy kid listed as 5 8"
Who is no more than 5'4
On a lousy team but why lie?

Ha, every single team lies.

I was a 5'11" 170-ish kid who was listed at 6'1" 190 lbs for my entire time in college (Ivy). Everyone knows the stats are bogus.

Baptiste is small, short! He is 5'9" . He is good cause he's strong and quick. Short guys can excell, that's what the point is! Stop trying to spin facts! HEIGHT does not matter!

Connor Cannizzaro 5'9" 175, hardly a "beast" yet a top producer. Stop your rediculus height argument its old like you#

He is 215 pounds and a FOGO. Stop trying to make the comparison to an 150 pound attackman. Oh and obviously you didn't attend Chaminade.

lol wat

He not good because he weighs 215. That is actually a little too heavy, too bulky. He's good because of his speed. At 5'9, I'm surprised he can be that quick with that bulk. 200 would seem like a good stroganoff weight to be at that height. He has a thick build. The original comments suggested that shorter guys could not possibly excell at the x. I've seen plenty that do. Somehow it may help to have a lower sense of gravity. Tall guys do well to though. It comes down to hand speed and explosive strength . It is interesting that Denver is such a successful team with so many shorter kids on the roster. They have a big one vs. Duke today. Will be an interesting fogo match between two real good ones. Rowe is 6'.

A former D1 college coach told me directly that they inflate the kids stats based on how tall they are in full gear, cleats and helmets. Cleats and helmets add two inches at the very least.

Look at pannel. Palasek, Sankey Wolfe , bitter. Kavanaugh, matheis, All 5 foot 9 at best.

Duke vs Denver not on tv. Come on ESPN. Powers that be in lacrosse dropping the proverbial ball.

LMAO. And Bitter, Palasek, and Pannell are all listed at 5-10 and up. Let's say they are lying. Does that mean the 5-9, 150 player from an upstate NY B school is really 5-8 and 140 pounds? Marquette has a 5-5 defensemen that is All Big East. Feel better now?

The only people who care about size are the ones with big kids. They think they have a golden ticket and they want it to be true that their kid who hits puberty in sixth grade is going all the way. I've seen small guys who are tougher than big guys, faster, and quicker. Most important, if you don't have the stick and the attitude doesn't matter how big you are or how much your dad wants it for you. W

Sankey is 5'5", 5'6" by some accounts. Can't think of a coach who wouldn't take him any day over some lumbering Frankenstein.

Guys the amazing thing about lacrosse it fits so many body types. Big small whatever you are if your skills are there and you have the heart and will to put the time in you can be successful at this game at many different levels. Everyone is giving these examples of smaller players doing well and they are right. The evolution of most sports is to bigger more athletic players. There are big men in basketball that handle the ball just as well as the old time best small ball handlers. Its the evolution of the athlete in general. The smaller player will not become obsolete either will the big boys. All these players are skilled and athletic like never before.

Did anyone just watch Hopkins vs Loyola? Great game!! Duke vs Denver on right now and it 5 to 4 Denver.

I'm enjoying seeing Hofstra spank UNC, after reading some degrading comments on here about that program. Also loved seeing Hopkins get payback for the game the should have lost last week!

Glad to see the cricket stopped chirping!

Big win today for Hofstra. 10-5 over UNC

The Hopkins-Loyola game was awesome today. Packed house and a tight game going right down to the wire. Had a great time down there. Good day for the Patriot league. Loyola, Lehigh, Bucknell and Colgate all won. Army and Navy tomorrow.

Early recruiting helping them too??? And usually getting the top recruits acccording to TY lmao

Maybe there should be degrading comments about both of these programs. Breschi should be ashamed.

Yes, the sport is getting smaller. You've got it, these FOGOs are petite.

The realities of early recruiting, 20 yo freshman, and the growth in the number of kids playing HS lax are starting to bare fruit... Just not in the way UNC and Hop thought it would work out!!! It is only the beginning... What Loyola did a few years ago was just the start of things to come. In the next few years we may see another team from the Patriot, CAA or NEC win it all. The age of parity is here to stay.

Looks like Hofstra got a huge gift from above by way of Canada and Nassau Community College.

Kid had a couple of goals, but the 5 goal scorer was a home grown LI product... Nice try though.

A couple is 4 goals and 2 assists? Public school education at it's best LOL

Stony Brook mens off to a great start. Was at the game today, they have some ringers!

Syracuse game on watch espn

Starsia getting spanked, keep recruiting those #1 earlies, lol! Someone will be fired soon!

#10 Virginia upset by 0-3 High Point 12-11. Gotta love it.

High Point with the upset win over Virginia in OT!

Another "elite" program loses to an unranked new program. UVA loses to HPU. I find it funny that these recruiters of 20 yo freshman and 8th graders are losing left and right to schools that waited and recruited later on.... My guess is there will be a number of Coaching changes come June. Parity is here to stay folks!!!

virginia is a mess

High Point is a new program and they have given a lot of the bigger programs fits, they also schedule very aggressively out of conference. I think early recruiting isnt necessarily Virginias problem, I think its more of a coaching problem. The road doesnt get any easier for them and itll be interesting to see what happens as the season goes on.

In my opinion the early losses by some of these high profile teams is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more parody in the sport than ever before. Too many programs taking kids on the word of a travel team coach before the kid has matured. What dont these guys get(college coaches) its the job of these travel team guys to get kids committed early and as many from their program as possible. The coaches are hedging their bets on these early recruits hoping some are as good as the travel coaches say they are. For the most part the early studs will be good players later on, but I have seen it all too often kids getting the early recognition because they were early to mature and were dominating at an early age get all of the accolades. As time passed many of the unheralded kids now were passing the so called best players. It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen a large percentage of the time. There are many factors to consider like growth, speed, athletic ability, game iq, drive etc. Two thing s I have always heard you cant teach size and speed. with all this training you can only enhance them. You will only be as tall as your meant to be and as fast as your meant to be. Drive determination heart are the uncontrollable factors coaches can not measure with a stopwatch or a tape measure. This is good for the sport and will help it grow.

UVA lost again?!??

What is the issue with Manhattan College? Why Doesn't Fordham University have lacrosse?

Something called Title XV that says schools must offer same amount of opportunity to men and women college athletes. IMO it is BS. It should be equal amount of teams, not based on headcount. If you offer 10 women's teams, offer 10 men's sports. Fordham offers FCS football so that is 65 male slots. Now you have to offer women same so you wind up with more sports for women because now you have to have 2-3 teams/sports to match that 65. This is the issue why many schools that offer football don't offer men's lacrosse. If they are a FBS football program they have to match 85 male slots.

As far as Manhattan, school admin didn't support lax too much in the past, but hired young, hungry staff and offered more scholarship funding so hopefully things will change in near future.

Manhattan doesn't seem to get the LI kids you would think they have to recruit to make the team successful...then they REALLY over scheduled themselves and have been abused buy Carolina and others...more harm than good. Fired the coach like 2 or 3 times in the last few years. A mess!

Manhattan has been historically bad, but they do have a new coach and it looks like he is aggressively recruiting. I have heard the facilities arent so great, but I have heard they have a very good engineering program. Campus is in a weird spot and I can only speculate but I would imagine a lot of Long Island kids dont want to be that close to home.

I have always wondered why Fordham doesnt have D1 lax, would be a perfet fit for them. They do have decent basketball and football and they have great facilities and I would think with their academic reputation they would be able to recruit reasonably well. I think they would be a perfect fit for the Patriot or America East conference. Again the title 9 thing is probably the principal reason they dont have it, although they do have a club program.

Some good games today
Stony Brook 1pm
Hofstra 3pm

Yale beats Maryland

Love it!! Another program that recruits early. Working for them too??

And Villanova killed penny state

Hofstra beats Princeton in OT. 11-10

5 goal scorer today was the Canuck - 9,2 in 2 games

Actually the best performer was the fogo, who was recruited early. So, not sure you are making a point here, they were simply out played!

See you are like a liberal. You are trying to find ways to discredit. Big deal fogo guy was early commit and did well. But as a whole Maryland loses to Yale. When Maryland gets all these top kids supposedly.

Truth is the ACC schools and Hopkins are the biggest proponents of early verbal commits. I hope they lose most of their games to teach them a lesson. Won't happen, but wishful thinking. Oh and nepotism alive and well at Binghamton.

8 goals from Long Islands Villanova Jr Jake Frocarro. Princeton transfer.

Nice job, how is the other brother doing?

Looks like public LI school kids killing it today! Nice!

Both correct #5 had 5 last week and that's what this person is talking about. #42 had 5 today

Hofstra Goalie was the best player on the field today.

Kid stood on his head in net.

Even with all the holdbacks and double holdbacks, MD can't beat the kids from Yale....

So youre saying if Virginia or Duke came knocking on your sons door in 9th grade you would tell them no?

Is the coaches son starting at Binghampton?

I would tell them no if my kid was going to go to Princeton, Harvard or Yale...

Who cares if the coaches kid is starting?

As a general rule, Princeton, Yale and Harvard dont recruit freshman or at least it is very rare that they will as kids dont have the test scores as yet. As it stands now there are 3 published verbals for the IVY league. So again the question is if an ACC team came knocking you would say no?

As to the 2nd question, its because the previous poster intimated that nepotism is alive and well at Binghampton, which of course implies that the coaches son is starting over a better player.

Because he is an overmatched freshmen attackman with zero points in two games while upperclassmen sit on the bench and the team is 0-2.

Who you got for hopkins/unc? I'm thinking unc by 3

I'm thinking Petro knocks out Breshi in the 3rd round.

The big bet lacrosse coaches made is that their sport is unlike all others and you can identify the best college potential talent in middle schoolers. The problem with that is lacrosse is no different from other sports in this regard. Boys develop in every way between 13-17 and that isn't a riddle anyone can solve.

Two of the games I was able to watch and my analysis of them.

Hofstra vs Princeton
Hofstra has something special with its two attack players #5 and #42. Goalie is hot right now. They need to ride that train. Their clearing game was awful to put it lightly. Relying way to much on the long poles to bring the ball up. The middy play is commendable very athletic but undersized. They seem to wear down as the game goes on and that is why they had so many losses last year by 1 or 2 goals when they were leading going into the 4th. with the addition of the Canadian they might be able to posses the ball a bit in the 4th and eat up valuable clock.

Princeton was just white bread nothing exciting. No major flaws yet no real threats. I bet they wish they had the transfer to Villanova back he put up 8 goals himself in one game yesterday. Their goalie was average and they dont have a true faceoff stud. Have some big mids but they never pulled the trigger. They worked a lot of weave offense with many of their goals coming from backside. Will definitely fall out of rankings.

UNC vs Hopkins
Hopkins no longer has the athletes they once had. Clearing game was worst I have seen in a long time. Also turned the ball over way to often. Goalie play was bad. Poor outlets and lack of communication resulted in 3 to 4 turnovers and goals. The difference in the game, in my opinion. I think they had at least 20 turnovers. 6 or 7 failed clears. No real athlete to come back to ball and just blaze it up the field. Their attack is not itself and they need Stanwick to be more of a creator from X he had 5 assists but didn't do much else. Its scary to say but they need more from him. Brown might be one of the best pure shooters I have seen in a while. When he gets his hands free his shot is almost unstoppable. Great torque and hides the ball well. Their mids consist of #44 and him only. He is the only real threat the team has and he does it from behind from the side and up top. need another supporting character. Defense young and late to slide comes from inexperience. With Petro coaching it should sort itself out.

UNC came out hot was up quick and then kinda stalled and picked it up when it counted. Goalie play was poor for them also. Both goalies had sub 40% save percentage. By the box score you can see that many goals scored by UNC were off fast break and turnovers. 7 assist on their 15 goals where Hop had 10 assists on their 11. They are a very vanilla team with nothing that really stood out in a good or a bad way as players. Cloutier is the real deal as is Simpson, Taglafarie, and Pontrello. They need more from their defense and faceoff.

Seems like every game I watch now the collegiate teams are wearing something other than a Cascade helmet. With all the controversy last year I guess they decided that the refurbishing is not enough. The Schutt helmet has been described as the safest but was criticized as too heavy. This weekend I saw Hopkins, Cornell and UNC all wearing it.

Call me a skeptic, but I would bet a lot of $$$$ that the decisions made to change gear were helped along by a sponsorship and marketing deal. More $ involved for the coach and the program. Safety would be fairly down on the list of factors if you ask me.

If my 15 year old gets an offer from UVA, Mich or UNC he is taking it.....we will work out whether it is the right for him he is 17!

Serious question : why is Duke playing Mercer? Just terrible and nobody cares how many goals you scored! Don't get it??

I don't note this to disparage any brand, but to the colleges that NOCSAE sticker is enough. Even if Cascade has the best helmet in the market, the Nike sponsored schools are going to wear the Stallion and the other SXT garb where Nike does not make an item. Warrior schools will wear the Warrior helmet. UA schools will wear a UA white label helmet. Apparel company money is much greater than university salaries in some instances. Recruiting wise the 14 year olds's motherboards light up for all the swag too, often over the academics a college offers. Are there really parents out there who think it is awesome a kid will get 45 Champion t-shirts from High Point or 23 versions UA China made t-shirts with the swinging cat throwing up logo...err, I mean the Maryland state flag...on it?

Rutgers 4-0 baby.

Rutgers 4-0, Hofstra 3-0 with 2 very good wins. Stonybrook looks good as well. Hopefully this will be a great year for local lacrosse.

They haven't played anyone. Fairfield, Wagner and St Johns are horrible. Talk to us when the Big 10 schedule starts.

Rutgers? seriously? Have they ever made the tournament?

Stony Brook will roll them next week.

Fair point but they did beat Army who lost to Cuse by 1. I am curious to see what they do once the Big 10 games start.

Fairfield is alarmingly bad this season. Wagner seems to be somewhat improved but still at the lower end of D1 and god only knows what the heck is wrong with St. Johns. I cant understand how theyre not better given their location.

St Johns might be looking for a new coach soon. They were in the SB game for a while. Then got their doors blown off in the second half. So much for halftime adjustments.

Towson beat Loyola 4-0 Nice

Make that another loss for St Johns (0-4). And they have Yale, Syracuse, Hofstra, Marquette, Denver and Villanova coming up. Ut oh. Could Siena or Providence be there only win of the season?

What is up with Georgetown lacrosse? Losing to Mt St Marys. Really?!?!?

Josh Byrne of Hofstra reminds me a lot of Mark Matthews of Denver. Seth Tierney should send Santa a heart felt Thank You note to the North Pole for his season changing gift.

Fairfield Head Coach has clearly lost that team... Anyone know what's happening with that guy? 8 years in CAA with no title and an implosion in the making at the moment. A number of high profile freshman recruits transferred out after last year. Something is not right there. He should be able to win with the talent available to him within 100 miles. What's the deal?

Towson 4-0 Woo Hoo. Dropped Loyola yesterday.

How about Manhattan and Marist? Local power houses.

They are off to a great start... I thought they would be a competitive team this year but they look real good. The Massapequa kid is doing well on their man up unit. Won CAA Rookie of the week last week. On different note another LI player (Long Beach) won CAA Rookie of the week this week from Drexel Congrats to both!!

M

Talent is being spread everywhere now. Look at LI high schools perennial baseball towns are now competing with the power lax towns. And it's happening all over the country. It's a good thing.

Yet another game won by 5'9" players. Donahue, Evans the real deal!

Carolina at Manhattan 3/14 in the Bronx. Will UNC score 20? Will Manhattan score?

Ok little Marco...

They played well. UVA's FOGO was physically outmatched today. For a program that is so [lacrosse] bent on recruiting "athletes" UVA has completely whiffed on recruiting a FOGO for many years. Who was the last guy they had who was decent at the X, Ince in 2011?

UVA has become a joke...haven't won an ACC game in 4 years. Today was a swell moral victory. DS era can't end soon enough down there.

Manhattan is going to win by 3 goals.

Now that is funny!

After Hop and UMD the B1G is really weak this year.

Tambroni has made less of more with all the funding he gets at Penn State. They can't beat a UPenn team where half the upperclass kids quit the team this year.

Why did kids quit?

Duke blew what should have been an easy win. Denver barely beats UNC even after winning all the F/O. Hofstra's streak over. I'm liking Harvard a lot. Villanova, Towson, Loyola, Syracuse looking good. Still not sure aboutND, they haven't played a real game yet. We'll see how they do tonight without winning F/Os

Well coaches Son didn't play at all yesterday and Bing still got beat badly.

What I saw yesterday was a Duke team that would lose to Harvard 8 times in 10. Either Harvard is very underrated or Duke is very overrated, or both is the case to some extent. Myles Jones is a real special player, and Deemer Class has been great for 4 years. Next year will be the first Dino team without the two recruits of a lifetime in Jones or Jordan Wolf, and we will see how sustainable this dynasty is when we see the next few Duke teams.

Looks like a few 2017 Fairfield commits have switched commitments as well. My son was at their prospect day last year and the head coach was talking like that team would be top 20 and making tournament appearances, now it looks like they will struggle to win another game. Total train wreck right now, wondering how long head coach keeps his job at this point.

They will graduate a lot this year but I am sure they will be fine in the future. Guterding is a terrific player and will carry the load on attack next year. If one or two players can step up and generate some offense from the midfield Duke will win their share of games next year. Goalie returns along with FOGO's, LSM and the Defense should be capable.

Duke has issues in the cage. D ball watches too much. They don't have any obvious next year AAs coming back after Guterding and he is more of a finisher than an initiator. Who will be at X next year? Matheis is ok, but not the player he was hyped to be coming out of high school.

First half of the 10 goals Harvard scored 8 of them were point blank shots that nobody would have saved. I think the goalie had 5 or so really good saves that should have been goals. Totally agree about the defense.

Goalie kept them in the game!

What's going on with Binghamton?

I was at the game and I have to say I was unimpressed with Miles. He barely moved without the ball. His biggest play is when he bull dodged a Harvard attackman and the threw the ball away. The goalie 100% for Duke kept them in the game. Stood on his head. Saves he made were point blank as were goals against.

All of the preseason press had them on a down year so its not too surprising that they are struggling. Doesnt get any easier for them either as the America East is pretty strong this year.

Duke goes down AGAIN, lol!!

Lightening strikes twice. Richmond beats Duke. The ball watching on D or Duke is stunning bad.

Duke loses to Richmond today.

Defensively is horrendous. Goalie standing on head and D is ball watching. Middies aren't staying on men resulting in easy opportunities.

Struggling is one thing but this looks like a different team from last year. Hearing things like problems starting from the top down. Coaching issues?

A couple of things that jump out in the Richmond-Duke game. Richmond coaching staff did a great job recruiting, for them to be this competitive this soon is very impressive. However Duke was clearly more talented but they seemed to be sleepwalking through the game while the Richmond kids were hustling and battling like crazy. I also agree with the earlier post, Dukes D is mediocre at best, they are atrociously bad off ball and their communication is almost non existent. Having said all of that, dont be suprised if they are there final four weekend, Danowski always figures it out somehow.

Never been impressed with Miles.

Not sure on the details at Duke, but remember this is the week where most colleges started spring break, and it is the mid-semester. It is possible this Duke team looks ragged because the kids just finished mid-term exams week. Jones looks particularly ragged, and it could also be he's been sick. Jones has shown what he can do in the past few years and he is really good when he's on.

Have to disagree on the goalie. I know this is a proud LI board, but he couldn't stop anything in the first half against Harvard including some outside bombs he could see from 14-16 yards. In the second half Harvard shot into his chest once and into his shins 2 times. Those aren't standing on your head saves were Harvard blew some easy finishes at the doorstep. He struggled last night too, especially on the low shots. Teams are going to pound it low on Fowler until he shows he can save them.

Myles has had a really good run over the last two years. Not many better than him. What is there not to be impressed about? Could it be he moves so different than most players on the field that we just don't appreciate what he does. I for one was in that camp when I saw him play in high school. It wasn't until his sophomore year in college that I realized he isn't your prototypical LI lacrosse player; however, he is still extremely effective. He is a great passer off the dodge(underappreciated), as well as, can get the good shot off. I don't know what more you are looking for from him. As for the turnover, I think most players have them.

No way sorry. He let in one outside shot that his defensemen clearly screened him on. As for saves I think versus Harvard he had 14 and they were point blank. He was diving across net because the backside d man was ball watching and was never in place to defend the backside or skip pass that Harvard was using all day long. The defenders were ball watching and not giving the goalie a chance. As for the Midfield they played no defense on transition. Its a shame because when you dont know about the goalie position it always is the goalies fault. Remember this, before the goalie gets beat the offense got beat then didn't ride, the middies didnt slow transition and the defense gets beat. I would say if the goals were from 15 yards out and he wasn't seeing the ball take him out. 90% of goals were from 5 yards or closer. Defense is young and inexperienced.

I get all that. I think he's a very good system player, who happens to be overrated.

There are plenty of other middies out there that have a better game.

Not impressed at all with the coaching staff. Was at the Marist game. How do you allow one player to score 7 goals? He was their only offense. Slide early to him and make him become a feeder or shut him off. I also noticed this is not a very big team. From a recruiting standpoint, they are a SUNY (inexpensive tuition in state) school with a very good academic reputation. How do you not sell that to NY parents? With the cost of college these days you should be doing much better recruiting NY. I also hear the HC's personality leaves a lot to be desired.

I know 4 very good kids from class of 2017 from LI comitted there.

All the kids there are very talented. Many from Long Island. It's not the lack of talent it's how the program is run. The game day decisions and the lack of leadership And as one person noted, the head coach's personality is causing a very good team to struggle

He is big, that is all. Marginal stickwork, limited IQ. It's all about Myles when he is out there. There are a ton of better middies but the press gives him way too much credit.

Dino is the college lacrosse version of Dean Smith. His results are enviable, but he has had stacked teams since he got to Duke. Where were all the people calling him a genius who always figures it out and has teams that pull through in May over 21 years at Hofstra? Basically he has shown what he can do when he is the jockey of a top tier money and draw program at a destination school over a middle tier program. This is the first Duke team in many years that just isn't very talented or skilled on defense, is thin at midfield and has an X attack man who is an ok system guy but is not very athletic or dominant from X. I agree you can't throw fault at Fowler, but a top college goalie he ain't.

If Dino can take these lemons and make lemonade I will be sold he is a genius. Right now I don't see this team winning more than 1 ACC game.

Apparently the MLL seems to think more of him than you do. But I will say he did not look totally in shape.

That's what happens when you play on the Outlaws. You get used to mediocrity

I agree. Myles ball watches and walks around off ball. Not impressed at all. Duke will play a charged up Loyola team this weekend at 11:00 am. Loyola wins and Myles walks around on top of the box.

In the ACC we've recently gotten used to hearing about how UVA is headed into a "must win" game in March having already gotten off to a slow start. Is this a must win for Duke?

I'd have to say this isn't a trap game, and since Duke is on spring break and not distracted by mid-term exams or any other academic calendar demands...there is no excuse for the Blue Devils now. They lose to Loyola they aren't a good team and it isn't worth a debate. I don't know if Jones has been ill, injured or if he just has some motivation issues now after being told he's the man by everyone around him for two years now. But you are what you do on the field and right now no Duke player is showing they are an AA or an All-ACC type player.

Miles thinks he is better than he really is. Size is all he has which has gotten him far but now people are use to it and made adjustments. Covered by a freshmen when they played Lehigh and held to 1 goal. If you watch (Hofstra) he gets frustrated really quick and if he doesnt get his shots he forces it. He then tries to stay on the field and he can not cover smaller quicker players at all. Also throws the ball away a lot. Has a hard shot but not from 20 -25 yards. Duke is hurting and all the attention is on him and I think the pressure is getting to him

Agee. Myles will not be good in the MLL and Duke will fizzle out. Denver on the other hand is moving the ball like lighting. Off the charts off ball movement and getting rid of the ball. On the other hand MD is dying as well. The ball hits the attack cross and just dies. limited to no ball movement. UGG. Sorry Terps, unless you get your head up and move the ball faster nothing good will happen.

I must say Tierney has been a fabulous caretaker of the Jamie Munro dynasty at Denver. Heh heh. Denver seems to have bottled the Canadian box style of play in a perfect way into the field game. When you watch most Maryland kids playing lacrosse now it is always dodge first, then have a Plan B to pass. Canadian kids and kids who grew up playing on the West Coast seem to have it in their DNA that if they are running with the ball for more than 6-7 seconds, then they are doing everything wrong. It is definitely a more entertaining and impressive way of playing. UMD and Hopkins are a perfect reflection of half court slow forming torture on offense. It honestly looks like soccer sometimes waiting for a play to form. And I hate soccer.

Amen. Well said. I wish Long Island kids would play Box, but they don't want to.

If they played Box in the off-season, then they wouldn't be those coveted multi-sport athletes anymore. They'd just be really exceptional Lacrosse players that you just described above. Imagine that? Been saying this for years, you can play all the football and basketball you want, it will never improve your lax skills. Same reason the Basketball phenoms from the cities never play lax in the spring to get better at Basketball. When a kid is a highly successful multi-sport athlete, its because of god given athleticism. The other sports have nothing to do with it. Clearly, what we're learning is: Kids like those at Denver are becoming amazing lacrosse players by working on their game. Not by playing football. Seems like the facts are supporting this.

100% accurate. I laugh when a town PAL coach or wanna be lax dad tells me that my son has to play multiple sports in order to be a great lax player. Some people are clueless and are too pig headed to hear what you are saying. See you at the rink.

I'm no lacrosse guru but I did attend the WILC U-19 tournament near Hamilton Ontario because my nephew made the team. The games were really exciting and I was ASTONISHED at the speed and level of skill the players had, especially the Western Canadian and the Six Nations squads at this tournament. The players on the US team you could tell were good players in a new environment, and that cost them some. But I heard from every single parent of kids on that team they could not believe how far their sons had advanced in one summer of box training and play. Some of those kids are having blow out years in college this spring. One of them is Morgan Cheek at Harvard. I cannot imagine why a kid would not want to play some box. It is fast and fun and it really contributes to rapid stick abilities improvements.

Question...did you ever think the kids want to play more than 1 sport? Most kids do. You people are delusional if you think your child is getting anything more out of lacrosse than enjoyment. There is no financial future to this sport. Let them enjoy other sports. What are you getting maybe a 1/4 ride to a 60 thousand dollar school. Let kids be kids.

I have no issue with kids wanting to play multiple sports, if they want to they should. I will even agree that in the early years it should e highly encouraged. My issue is with all these football heads saying that somehow their kid is a better athlete or better lacrosse player than my kid because of it. It simply isn't true. Their kid may be a gifted athlete that can excel at football because they want to. However, the football does not make you better at Lacrosse. However, we can now clearly and definitively say that playing BOX will make you a better lax player. BTW almost no kid playing lax on LI except for the one QB we all know will have any shot what so ever at the NFL or NBA. With regard to the lax scholarship, you're misinformed. 60% plus at a very competitive private school has been offered to my son. You'd be shocked at what can be offered for the right kid at the right program...

Totally agree. We're not raising a professional lacrosse player. We want a well-rounded hard working child who leverages lacrosse to get into a great school. Lacrosse all year round would only result in burnout...at least in our kid. I won't speak for yours. Good luck.

My son is already going to get 150k to pay at division one school.
Plus he was scholarship for most of his club days. 30k
180k if you add taxes to that it is like 225k
Not bad for no future.
That is 225k he would have to make up in his working career

What does any of which you just bragged about(nonsense)have to do with your sons future financial earnings from lax. NOTHING. Btw..you do know that the 150 scholarship $ your talking is not guaranteed no matter what you've been told. Unless it's academic $. If that's the case you shouldn't be on here talking about a lax scholarship.

So full of crap

I am not full of crap.
That is what he was offered.
It has every thing to do with future earning. You know how long it would take to pay off 225k
Even making 200k per year it would take at least 10-15 years.
Yes he needs to be the player they are hoping for but it is better than not being offered anything.

That equates to 37500 a year so we are talking lower D1 school. You better hope he is as good as you think he is or doesnt get hurt or good bye money after first year. And if it is upper school, books, room and board no where near that so you better double up your time collecting bottles and cans

Excuse me while I hurl

Yeah my son was offered 30k a year. So 120k. 20 academic 10 athletic. He said no thank you. Wasn't the greatest academic school. Took less money and attends a very prestigious academic school. Division 1. It's about the future. Not the past.

I would not suggest opting out of other school sports. That written, many kids play weekend ball in the winter or in fall seasons in addition to playing a school sport. I'd rather see my kid play some box in summer or over those fall and winter weekends or breaks than more field. A lot of the field offerings including club ball in the fall isn't helping kids get any better. Box is also a fun diversion. Most kids who play it like it a great deal and consider it quite different from the field game.

In your opinion, what teams are better lacrosse wise, high division 2 or high division 3? I know in the 90's the top d3 teams were better. Is that still the case?

I think that makes perfect sense. Box will improve them in many ways for field and it may help prevent burnout. As long as they don't combine to be year round. Again, that's my opinion in regards to my son and not anyone else's.

Lacrosse is a great sport but there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! You may get a good piece of college paid for. That's it. The guys in the MLL get between 1k_2k a game. What does that work out to? 40k on the higher end. My friends neighbors kid is the backup goalie on the NJ Devil's. He makes 450k a year at 22. That is a pot of gold! Let your kids play as many sports as they like.

And roll they did...15-6 USB

For most people it's not about the money. Most people save for their kids future college costs.

Agree, put money away for your kids education and hopefully you get some lax/academic money. The goal is your kid walking out of school with no debt, a degree, 4 years of competitive lax and memories for a lifetime.

As the guy who posted this, I agree 100%. It was posted in response to people saying that kids should play just one sport. I think kids should play multiple sports, especially at the younger ages,so they don't burn out. Once in the later stages of HS or in college they can concentrate on one. Playing sports is to give a kid a purpose and something to dedicate themselves to. Learn about teamwork and to lessen the chances of them getting into trouble. Anything after that is gravy.

Year round lax will only lead to burnout and repetitive use injuries such as back stress fractures and ACL blowouts. But don't listen to me, go to any athletic trainer who does PT and ask them what they are seeing. How about these kids just get a job in the summer and work on getting stronger to help minimize the risk of injury during fall ball and the season? At some point the liife lessons and value of learning how to make a living far outweighs the ego boost for some dad that grew up in Queens and never played the sport himself.

Why the d-bag statement about being from queens? That is why people from LI who still speak so lovingly about their 5 minutes of fame at Adelphi back in the day are seen as such jerks. Plenty of people have played the game and that has no bearing or weight on this discussion.

Finally a sensible post. Thank you.

Somebody give Ty Xanders a Duke cheerleading outfit already. The Dino & Co staff and Miles Jones bromance is getting a little too hot.

Closing in on 200 points as a midfielder. Not impressive? Hat trick in 1st half today.

Wow, what does UVa do now? Is there a 1-800 number to get some coaching and some talent at this juncture? Program is a shell of what it once was.

Gotta love UNC losing to umsss. Hey coaches early recruiting doing you guys a solid?

It does have bearing on this discussion. Hands down I've found parents who played lacrosse in college to be much more low key and much less intense about the whole youth process than parents who never did have their 5 minutes. The ones who didn't are grinding their teeth and seem like they are boiling on the inside and constantly on the verge of a heart attack with every play. I can spot them a mile away.

[quote=Anonymous]Dino is the college lacrosse version of Dean Smith. His results are enviable, but he has had stacked teams since he got to Duke. Where were all the people calling him a genius who always figures it out and has teams that pull through in May over 21 years at Hofstra? Basically he has shown what he can do when he is the jockey of a top tier money and draw program at a destination school over a middle tier program. This is the first Duke team in many years that just isn't very talented or skilled on defense, is thin at midfield and has an X attack man who is an ok system guy but is not very athletic or dominant from X. I agree you can't throw fault at Fowler, but a top college goalie he ain't.

If Dino can take these lemons and make lemonade I will be sold he is a genius. Right now I don't see this team winning more than 1 ACC game. [/quot

Kinda looked like Duke figured it out today......not a Duke fan at all but I learned my lesson writing them off this early

And I'm sure you are easy to spot. Everyone can point out a [lacrosse] like you, even the guy from Queens.

If they don't fatten up on Manhattan on Monday, then they might not even let the team back on campus!

Bye bye Harvard...

UGH Rutgers looked good. Loss to Princeton? Dislike

and Princeton is alarmingly bad this season. Have to think Princeton alumni and administration cant be happy with that situation. Princeton hasnt been relevant in years and it doesnt look like its turning around anytime soon.

Guess they wish they had the 40 points in 5 games by the transfer that went to Villanova back.

Denver ND games was one for the ages. The ND attack really got them back in it by riding right after the possession was called. Zack Miller finishes it for Denver again. Wow. Was a snoozer until the 4 quarter and then could not leave your seat. Love me some College lax.

Stony Brook with the complete 13-5 beat down of Hofstra!!!

At least the boys are doing well! What happened to the girls? Not looking good!

and Rutgers slowly fading once again, back to back losses to Stony Brook and Princeton, and they still have to play their Big10 schedule. See ya next year.......

Spallina is too busy with MLL, 91, etc....

What are the odds Binghamton will be 0-7?

That's part of it but there are some injuries too

Unfortunately for the haters, SB will be a factor in the Tournament and better for having played a tough schedule now. As they say you reap what you sow and they are sowing a fine season.

A fine season? They have lost the last 3 games. Not seeing your argument.

Not likely. But thanks for the vote of confidence. Bye troll.

Which tournament? Oh, you mean against Kentucky tomorrow. LOL

Relax w the beat down talk. You guys had a great first quarter ! We were fresh off a tough game with Ohio state and came out sleeping. As far as the girls they are playing top teams in the country right now and that guy has turned that team into a perennial power. The men should try doing the same. Bottom line is SB men because of a beyond weak schedule still needs to earn the AQ to get in tournament Hofstra w wins over UNC and Ohio state have a resume Typical SB nonsense pounding your chest

We? You are a coach or player?

WE????

Hofstra and Rutgers back to doing Hofstra and Rutgers things, amazing how they just fade away every season

Those girls lost 3 in a row and barely squeaked by a mediocre Delaware, Coach should be embarrassed!

You should be embarrassed about how ignorant you are. A good win and a momentum builder.

They barely beat am unranked team, that is not ignorant, nor impressive, going nowhere fast this season. They can't compete against the top teams, that has already been established. Sorry if the truth upsets you?

SB men beat down again by Albany Too bad there isn't an NIT For them.

Grown men acting like college student body talking about "their" team. How embarrassing can you get

Alllllbannnnnnnyyyy!! Really think the tough non conference schedule Albany plays helps separate them in the America East! Coach Marr seems to have them ready when it matters most.

This years tournament is going to be great. So unpredictable this year

#2 Notre Dame barely beat an unranked team in Virginia. Such an unpredictable year

ND hoops won a barn burner against "Steven F. Austin".. isn't that the nature of sports and why we love playing and watching them so much.

Brown and Yale in the Top 5! Wow, it would be nice to see some different faces at final four this year thats for sure!

Air Force Falcons!!!!

What is Harvard ranked

No 1 by SAT scores.

Absolute Dumpster fire going on at Dartmouth. 1-5 record with losses to Wagner and NJIT. Georgetown also extremely disappointing as well at 1-7 when they were expected to be in the mix this season.

Has Dartmouth ever really been a Lax player? Not really, and it is getting tougher every year.

They did bring in a new coach and they are recruiting aggressively. From what ive heard the school really doesnt care about lacrosse at all so they dont get the support from the school. Great school to be sure but an absolute train wreck on the lax field.

Better place to watch a game: StonyBrooks" Lavalle or Hofstra's Shuart? Go........

depends who is playing

love Lavalle. seems more intimate

I agree...fans are right over the field. If you sit in the first few rows you are actually feet from the coaches and players and if you sit upper deck you have a perfect view of the field.

If Dartmouth is a dumpster fire what is your term for Michigan?

kind of a new program at Michigan. you think in a couple of years Dartmouth has any shot against them?

Lavelle but always seems to be out of the way but while there it is a better experience!

They had an awesome run back in 2003. And there's absolutely no reason why they should be as bad as they are.

Michigan has been playing the "new program" card for 5 years now. Richmond is 3 years old and has a bunch of quality wins and 2 NCAA appearences, with 1/100th of the athletic budget.

Agreed, Michigan needs to get off the transition to D1 narrative. In five years they've done nothing and are the least accomplished scholarship program in the country.

Michigan coach seems like a real tool. Walks around recruiting showcases like hes Petro or Tierney. To be fair though, their 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes look pretty good so I guess well see how they do in the future, but right now they are a train wreck.

agree the recruiting classes in 2017 and 2018 seem good on paper but this yahoo of a coach should be fired. Come on, it is Michigan and B10 athletics. Get a great coach already. He yahoo assistant (Danehy) who also thinks he is God's gift to lax is gone to Big 4.

It has been a crazy year in D1. I suspect this weekend will be the one where the traditional powers win when they have to. Law and Order will return to the lacrosse lands.

Penn State beats Denver! You couldn't be more wrong. It's anyones game, who wants it?

Denver is not a traditional lacrosse power

Denver has been beating all the "traditional" super powers for quite some time now. They have proven themselves and earned the right to be called a top ranked team, getting deep into playoffs for years, and now being NCAA D1 champs. But even champs can have a bad day! It's all about resiliency and humility!

Hopkins loses to Rutgers badly.....

UNC defense is an absolute train wreck, only Duke's is worse which allowed them to win that game by some miracle. Breschi must have naked pictures of the UNC presidents wife or something, because how he still has a job is mind boggling. He short sticked Myles Jones the whole game and guess what? Myles Jones had 12 points.......

Syracuse D isnt much better, Notre Dame put an old fashioned A** whooping on them. Cuse will struggle to make the tourney.

2 Ivies in the Top 5.......Yale at #1

Dont look now, but here comes Virginia, maybe Dom has some idea of what hes doing after all....

Denver, Notre Dame, Maryland, Brown-- Final 4

Love the Ivies doing so well! Getting recruited at an Ivy rewards hard work on the class, not just the field!

Georgetown and Princeton coaches have to be on the chopping block.

Got to add UNC and Dartmouth coaches to that list

I think UNC coach will be fine. I don't know much about the situation at Dartmouth but the coach is only in his second year. The Dartmouth coach did not take over a program that was once in the top tier of programs.

Georgetown is a train wreck and the wheels have come off the bus at Princeton. Both Schools have passionate alumni who will demand more out of their coach. Both teams can still salvage their seasons but it will not be an easy task. If Georgetown can find a way to win three of the next four maybe he keeps the wolves at bay. Princeton might have to win 4 of the next 5.
No dog in the fight good luck to both teams. Would love to see the young men on the field dig in and fight. It would be great to see them finish the year on a positive note.

No dog in the fight means you do

How about a Hofstra team that lost to Providence and Fairfield, had to win in OT against Vermont, and lost LI bragging rights to Stony Brook?

It seems like it happens every year with them. Unfortunately I dont think that school gives one crap about sports so that coach will be there forever unless he does something really stupid or resigns.

The president thee only cares about his new Medical School. They closed down football without much squaking and the stadium is getting ratty.

Um, while I do love lacrosse, I think a Medical School is WAAAAY more important than the lacrosse team.

Princeton Coach Bates has been placed on administrative leave after the elbowing of a Brown player. It was caught on video.

Shocking that a University President would prioritize the academics of his institution over sports programs. The football team was costing 5 million dollars to maintain, and was attracting less than 350 ticket buyers a week. The student body wasn't supporting it, why should he.
Say what you want but the academic reputation of Hofstra has improved considerably over the past decade or so. The Med School is going to raise the schools profile.
Would having a stronger lax team be nice?......sure, but let's put that on the AD and not the President.

wow, that might be just the excuse they need to launch him out the door....

Duke and North Carolina have no business being ranked where they are.

Syracuse too high as well.

Average lax, average med school, below average reputation across the board!

Could be an interesting off season

Now that the Princeton coach was let go, anyone wondering what's going on at the "public Ivy" Binghamton?

Other than being just god awful? not much. Great school and education to be sure but lacrosse wise just not any good. To be fair it does look on paper like they recruited well in the 2016 and 2017 classes so I guess well see how that goes.

The talent is there currently. Lost 5 games by 1 point last year. This year they are talented enough to be tied at the half with Towson, but lose to UDel when they were up by one goal with 2 minutes left and possession. Good coaches know how to lead a team to win. Maybe the staff needs a change and the AD needs to have a better clue as to what's going on. Low morale And poor game decisions aren't helping.

It would be awesome if the Princeton coach went to Binghamton and coached all the talent on that team .....a winning season would be within grasp ....it's time for change in Bing

The guy was 10 games over .500 at Princeton, why would he do well at a school where it will be much harder to bring in recruits?

Agreed! Definitely a mediocre coach at best, however I disagree about it being harder to bring in recruits. Princetons admissions standards are pretty strict. Binghamton's admissions process is tough as well, but nowhere near Princeton and the Ivy league.

Parents and players are extremely unhappy. It's not just about the loses either. There's nothing positive coming out of this program except the Binghamton degree.

Not sure Bates is the right call there. Maybe some different/younger Yorktown guys would be a better fit.

So no big money pro contracts? The degree is all that really matters. That and some memories are all they are entitled to.

Bad memories? Grinding away for 4 years. And no relationship with the coaching staff to look back on. If it was only about the degree, then they would just quit. They love the game and the experience they are having is killing that love. If you're not experiencing it, you couldn't possibly know. And they entitled to more.

Then go on www.backofthehospital.com LOL

hahahahaha..

Its absolutely amazing how Myles Jones doesnt get any criticism when he doesnt play well. He was atrocious today and all they can say is that he looks tired..........SMH

UVA....

Bates was fired.

What a disaster. Poster child program for early recruiting debacle after debacle. Poorly coached. Seemingly not motivated if body language in the second half is any indicator. This is what happens when you recruit kids early and have been told how wonderful they are since they were 14. They have to blow that thing up and start over.

They're honoring the 2006 NCAA title team before the game next week. I wonder how many of those guys will have the stomach to stay and watch the game against Duke.

How do you know? If your kid is not on the team you have no idea. Memories with your teammates is what matters. The brotherhood will last forever.

Hard to get recruits? Not my situation, but do you know how many kids and there parents would give a pint of blood to be able to get into Binghamton? A very good school, $22k a year all in, and some money for lax? You sound silly and disconnected to reality, for many, they just don't have the resources to send their kids to private. Wake up. Not everyone has $200+k sitting around for college. They further don't want their kids saddled with a $150k in debt upon Graduation. Unfortunately, there are many people who make too much for aid, and not enough to foot the bill. For many Lax is means to and end. A degree and no debt.

The comments of Jim Nagle are embarrassing about Bates in Newsday No jim sometimes one action can define someone's career. Even if you feel that way the coach initiated contact with an opposing player, that can not be justified EVER

What is going on at UVA isn't fun or fulfilling in any way to anyone associated with the program. They need to blow it out and start over.

Not a result of early recruiting, it's more likely a result of so many talented kids now playing the game . Back in the day all of the elite talent went to the traditional lax schools like UVA, Hopkins,Cuse, Maryland, Hobart, Ivys etc.... In today's game a good amount of the elite talent are choosing non traditional lax schools, resulting in
More of an equal level of talent distributed among many more schools.

You must be kidding. UVA has recruited well? According to the bloggers, sure. According to the club and prep hype machine, yes. Based on what you see in the program? Absolutely not. The Parcells Rule: evaluate what you can see. This UVA team is smaller, less athletic and has fewer players hungrier to get better now. That reflects 100% on how the coaches recruit an then develop players and a culture in the program. Remember when all UVa middies looked like Emery or Tucker? That wasn't a long time ago. The wheels are completely off now.

I have a kid on the team. I know. When graduating seniors say they have no good memories. Don't want to come back for alumni games and won't respond to communications from the coach. I think that says a lot.

Completely disagree. I wouldnt say they are smaller or less athletic at all. Their D is huge and their 1st middie line is as big as any in the ACC, and the attack is normal size and very skilled. Something is wrong with their schemes and game plans They just dont look prepared for games sometimes and other times they look like they can beat anyone. They do have wins over Hop and Cuse so its not like the season is a complete disaster but after yesterday you do have to step back and wonder what is going on. Game might be passing Dom by, maybe time for him to ride off into the sunset. New blood might be just what that program needs.

Well if you have a kid on the team then you know the inner demons of the program. Congratulations on having a son graduating from a premier American university. He will likely get a great, well paying job. He may even have to attribute that to a UVA lax alumni. He will be OK, and eventually, those horror stories will diminish and become warm memories.

That's the most fabulous assessment of a team that's won ONE game in the ACC since these seniors started in the program. Sure players have comraderie with each other and have gained friendships. But when you've worn that uniform for 4 years and the program has done absolutely nothing in the sport as a program that isn't a very good feeling for anyone. Sure, alumni events are fun. Sure, the alums are supportive of the players and will help them with job searches. That's what the guys do. But this program is an empty shell of what it once was. Saying they have some good players is no different now than saying Towson has some guys who can play. It doesn't mean anything.

Was in the military, wore the uniform, had some God awful experiences, to put it in perspective, I talk to the guys to this day, always laugh about how awful it was, how hard the days and nights were, but at the end of the day, happy we did it and wouldn't have wanted it any other way. They will say the same.

Military ain't for everyone. I wish I had the balls back in the day to do it. Kudos to you sir. Boys have to realize you are giving them 5 yrs after you graduate.

any word on the new NCAA policy on Satellite camps for football and if that rule applies to lacrosse.


Essentially the NCAA said prospect camps for a school can only be on campus. Representatives for a school can not be in attendance at another schools camp or cant hold a camp off campus.

Where can we get some clarification

Maybe the Seniors are the problem? Sorry Dad, but teams that win have Senior leadership. Ask Villanova.

That is an excellent question. Does this mean no coaches at NLF which was disguised as a 'teaching camp' or a 'pre-recruiting event'. Can lacrosse coaches wiggle and find a loophole? With history as a guide they have been very good to find ways around things.

Not sure what the Towson reference is, they're ranked #9 and UVA is unranked... Here's the difference, UVA has been recruiting 20 year old freshman hold backs and 9th graders for a while now. It's not panning out. Kids who've been playing down for years are getting their worlds rocked when they have to play up against grown men, and the superstar 9th graders are not the superstar college freshmen. Think they are missing on recruits more often than not. Do a little research on these top rated kids in each grade from a few years ago, see how many have become All-Americans? See how many are even still playing or playing at the school that recruited them. I think you'd be surprised at the results.

I wouldn't be surprised at the results at all!! Any college coach that gives a verbal commitment to and 8th/9th grade star is IMO totally crazy, especially if the kid is a holdback. At this age a year or two in age can really make a kid look bigger/faster/stronger but that does not translate into a super athlete. All that means is a kid is beating up on younger kids. I seriously don't get it, I guess maybe some coaches will decide it isn't worth it when they lose their jobs because of poor recruiting decisions

I'd be shocked if we don't see a few major Coaching vacancies this year. A retirement or two, and a firing or two. Needs to happen.

Clearly Starsia and Breschi have to go. Virginia looked awful against Duke today, and Carolina got embarrassed by Cuse yesterday. With the talent both of those schools are able to attract they should be in the thick of it every year.

That's the issue, the talent is not what they thought it would be.. Too many other kids out there, just as talented and more so. Look at Penn State, on par with MD and HOP, took both to one goal games. Rutgers on the rise. That never would have happened just 3 or 4 years ago. Just wait, 3 or 4 years from now things will be all over the place. You'll see many more old guard teams other than Virginia unranked. It's going to happen. You will see more Ives, CAA, NEC and America East teams in the top 20.

I agree with you that the talent pool is much larger and parity is here to stay and we will definitely see different teams having success in the future. However I think UVA, UNC, etc will always have a leg up due to the conference and their great institutions. I think the UNC and UVA rosters are loaded with talent, I think their coaching is lacking and there needs to be a change at both schools.

This UVA team looks like an Ace Adams UVA team from the 1980s. No heart, no fight. Dom needs to go.

UVA lacrosse: what a spectacular disaster. From an early recruiting poster child for the worse to a program that keeps pointing to good effort and patches of seeming competitive in games they are losing.

Time for a coaching change and a total culture and attitude change in that program. This is the low.

USA not the same since the young assistant left. What was his name, Walker?

UVA*

Although early recruiting might be some of the problem there, I dont think thats the whole story. I think your more on the mark with the coaching change. They are an ACC program that expects to compete every year for an ACC title and final four appearance, dont expect to see them stop the early recruiting unless there is a rule change.

StonyBrook and Albany upset in the semis of the America East tourney.......

Stonybrook will not get an at large bid, Albany is on the bubble...

Gotta love Rutgers beating Hop! So many top recruits going to Hop over the years and this is the outcome?? Keep up the great recruiting strategy. Really working for you?

To be fair, Hop went to the final four last year and came within a butt end save of going to OT in the semis with Maryland. They will make the tourney again this year and have the talent to beat anyone. Rutgers is improved and their goalie stood on his head last night. I get your point about the early recruiting but I dont think that stands up here with Hop. Drexel is a notorious late recruiter and how does that work out for them? Denver is a notorious early recruiter and how is that going for them? I understand the backlash against early recruiting but lets deal in reality.

So much for Long Island college lacrosse

The last national championships have all been won by teams that recruit early. Apparently early recruiting works, sorry your son didnt get recruited early but those are the facts.

Lol always have to go with your son must of not been recruited early. Absolute loser with that response. Get a new one. Did I say early recruiting? Einstein I said top recruits. With all so called top players going to these schools they shouldn't be losing as much as they do. Fact!

To be even more fair, last year was Hop's only FF in the last decade and they needed no small miracle late season run to even make the NCAA tournament. Then they got the gift of playing their round one game against UVA, the ER train wreck poster child. If you coach a program like Hop or UVA and can't be competitive to be in or near a FF each year, something is off. Denver is off the charts because their coaching staff recognizes Canadian and Native talent and they have the admissions office latitude to recruit that way. Or am I not dealing with reality?

Loyola's championship team was the MIAA leftovers group. Denver didn't win with ER last year. The Denver recruits early narrative is a bit of a myth --- they can roster 80 if they wanted. Title IX room up the wazoo at Denver. So taking 5-7 kids early in the 2018 class for example does not constitute a big chunk of the flexibility Tierney has. Denver wins with 5-7 Canadian ringers, the few Native kids they can get through admissions and then make due with the US kids who can adapt to a quick box style QUICKLY to fill their lines out. Most US kids don't "get it" quickly to play the game fast with a shallow pocket where carrying the ball is a sin. The ones who do become fabulous college players at Denver. None of that owes any credit at all to early recruiting.

Sorry if you think your son being recruited in 8th grade imputes that he will be an exceptional college player. We are all seeing now this is not nearly as high a correlation as people believed a year or two ago. Hopkins is not demonstrably more skilled, athletic or loaded with lacrosse IQ over Rutgers now. They lost twice to Rutgers and neither game was a fluke. And Rutgers is not a top 10 team this year. Deal with it.

Don't make sense, there is no place for that here !

Question, does JH program have latitude in acceptance if recruit doesn't meet grade standards? Could this be a reason why some of the powerhouse programs ie UVA,JH and some others are not as dominant at they used to be? I know in football a great deal of flexibility is given at the big time programs, was wondering if this exists on the lax field .

But explain the Ivy's then....

Hop and UVA coaches have a lot of latitude with admissions at their respective schools. Lax is the only sport of any real measure at Hop, and If a recruit misses admissions, the academic record would need to be poor. UVA is a big enough university (13.5K undergrads) that sports recruit preferences are pretty material there as well. Bottom line, lax is also a sport wherein the demographic is more toward the prep school strata were kids in the sport tend to be on the higher side of academic quality versus football or men's basketball at big scholarship schools.

The relative blight at Hop and UVA over the last few years is not the fault of these coaches not having all that is asked for. Both programs have plainly recruited too early and too poorly and this is starting to show up. For every Shack or Tinney seems to be half a dozen whiffs. Hop and UVa have less depth and athleticism than any other ACC or B1G program now, with the possible exception of UNC...the 3rd ER horseman.

Maryland seems to do ok and they are one of the most blatant early recruiters. I really dont see ER as the culprit with UVA, they are plenty talented and plenty athletic, I think the game has passed Starsia by and a change needs to be made there. I think the same can be said for UNC who routinely disappoints in the tournament. JHU is a head scratcher, Petro is an excellent coach and they are Hop so they can attract any recruit they want, so I really dont understand whats going on there. ER is some of the issue but not the whole story.

Never said I agree or identify with early recruiting, I just think its a way overblown issue. I find the people screaming the loudest are the ones whose sons did not get recruited early. My son was not recruited early, nor did he deserve to be but I dont understand why people want to blame ER for some of the plights of the bigger teams but its just not based in any fact or reality. ER is a relatively new phenomenon and some of these teams have been struggling for years. UNC hasnt been to a final four in forever and JHU has been to one in the last 8 years. The reality as it is today is that all the top teams recruit early, some are successful, some arent, its that simple.

ER is good for some players ..and bad for others.. Hit or miss and probably doesnt effect a program that much, maybe some. I just think it is wrong and hope NCAA changes it to at least 10 grade minimum.

Interesting to note that Petro was interviewed by Carc last year and went on and on about how he watches as much film as he can find on opposing teams & players over and over. He can never prepare enough for a game this way. But then he goes blank answering why he offers a kid just out of 8th grade based on a few 20 minute halves of club lacrosse. At least he was honest with the answer (or non answer). ER seems to be like betting all you've got every time with just two hole cards known. Even if some coaches have a great eye for talent, the probabilities math just renders the bets to be impossible to sustain over a long period. Why decline having the most info? I believe that Petro could easily call committed juniors before their senior year and fill out a class from scratch rather easily. Mid major schools can't pull that off, but Hop, UVA, UNC, Cuse all could. So why don't they? That's the question nobody has a great answer to.

When it comes to the top teams like Hop, UVA, Maryland, etc, its simply a numbers game. They scoop up as many "top" kids as possible and hope they work out. If not they keep reloading every year. It seems to be working because the same teams are in the final four seemingly every season. Granted there is always a suprise or two, from the Ivies or the Patriot, but come memorial day its the usual suspects in the final four. Maryland in particular seems to do pretty well in the ER game. I think if the system changes and they restrict contact until a kids JR year, you wont see much change, the same schools will still get the top kids. Also you cant discount the role the club scene has had on recruiting as well. If you dont think clubs are pushing certain kids on these programs your fooling yourself.

Clubs will always push hard. That is their purpose in exchange for the prices they charge. If coaches recruited the best rising seniors versus the best rising freshmen, do you believe those are the same players? Kids in MD / DC who were the early recruits are already showing to be a less than 25% success. Many struggle to stand out on their high school teams.

UMD has had success. But Hop, UVA and UNC are not the "usual suspects" in the FF over the last 5 years since ER really took off. To the extent these programs have been reloading, what we have seen is they continue to go backwards. UVA would have lost to Tufts this year. UNC did get bombed in a scrimmage against Limestone. I know scrimmages don't / can't count because D3 teams can't schedule D1 teams for regular season games, but the result that day is what it is. I think if Petro started with a blank sheet for 2017s right now, he'd come back with a much better class than the ones he has on the way. Consider how badly Hop has struggled to find a good goalie since Bassett. Consider that UVA has lacked an elite attackman since Steele. Consider that neither UVA or Hop has been able to piece together a legit consistent contributing 2nd middie line for a few years. Petro is known as the best defensive coach in the game, but Hop hasn't had a top defense in years. The biggest believers in ER are those with skin in the game on the demand side...club guys and proud parents.

It is in the interest of the Club Directors to have the recruiting timeline pushed back. The college coaches can stop the early recruiting any time they want. Recruiting classes are never full, coaches will always find a spot for the right kid.

the coaches can not wait because the kids and the parents will not wait. They just don't have enough confidence and I'm not going to say they are wrong. If a kid wants to go to Hop but UNC offers a good package in 9th grade, the parents will take it rather than wait and the kid sucks it up, and it is a lock. There are just to many things that can go badly in the next few years. And if the coaches wait too long, all the studs will be taken and then people will say the coaches are dumb/lazy aren't working within the system.

its no win for the coaches and locking in is a win for the parents. The kids lose out, all of them.

If the NCAA gave a damn about the kids, they would put a stop to this, but they are a big business as well and they don't want to police anything because that impacts their bottom line. The NCAA is a joke. They have a proposal to act upon, they could fix this now and they will not.

The coaches can't wait because the parents and kids won't wait? So the parents and the kids control the supply side as well as the demand side?

The NCAA coaches look pathetic. And then beyond pathetic to ask the NCAA to play daddy when they can't but help themselves refrain. The most encouraging sign to me now us 3 things. 1. UVA sucks. 2. Hop sucks 3. UNC sucks. Let's see how well the early recruiting gurus do staying employed. The first one should be straight outa Charlottesville any time now.

How about Marquette beating Denvet

UVA is a train wreck I agree, however I firmly believe that is a coaching issue not an ER issue. Hop and UNC will most likely be in the NCAA tourney so that story isnt written yet. UNC and Hop have disappointed for the most part save Hops final four appearance last year. Petro isnt going anywhere and I dont think UNC cares enough about lacrosse to boot Breschi although he clearly deserves it if they miss another final four. Duke, ND, Maryland and Denver are all ER players and I dont see any of their coaches going anywhere either. Unless something is done on the administrative side nothing will change and even if it does I dont see the landscape of college lacrosse changing all that much. The top programs will still get the top kids, theyll just get them later on in the process. It will hurt the clubs bottom line and the money grab showcase scene which is definitely not a bad thing.

You're missing the point! If Hop, UNC and UVA were in fact getting the "best" kids, they should be able to win. Rutgers beating Hop twice in the same year is proof positive. Supposedly, Hop has had the best recruiting classes year in and year out. Only ten kids on the field at one time. If in fact they are getting the "best" kids they should be able to beat Rutgers with their 3 string? No? Of course not. Because they are NOT getting the best kids. What more proof do you need? The best 9th graders are not the best college sophomores and juniors, that's a fact. Further, the over rated 20 year old college freshman that Hop has been recruiting are also not panning out either. If they were, they would be killing teams like Rutgers with their back ups. Clearly, kids who've played down from 8-12th grade cannot compete against older tougher, better competition when they get to college. Combine these two issues, with growth of the game and this is the result. Buckle in, it's going to continue at an exponentially rapid pace. Anyone notice MU knocking off Denver? The parity genie is out of the bottle and the biggest losers in this whole deal are the biggest supporters of ER and Hold back recruitment. I for one think it's great for the game.

I agree parity is here to stay. Marquette over DU, Hartford knocks off Albany. Marquettes success has everything to do with coaching, that guy has done a phenomenal job in such a short time. Again, I think parity is here to stay but I am not convinced ER has anything to do with the success or failures of some of the big teams.

Maybe Marquette recruited the right players. Not a whole lot of UA AA's or other blather on their roster, just w whole lot of Team Captains and All County players. Look like a team of leaders and solid, not spectacular players.

Don't forget the Canadian Box players

They also recruited much later, they had to. They've only been a program for 4 years. So it seems they may have taken kids that the ole guard teams passed on in 9th and 10th grade. ER is definitely one of the reasons these teams are not as dominate as they once were. Some of the recruits are simply just not panning out. You just can't argue that.

Binghamton fired their coach

About time. Couldn't win games with a loaded roster of talent

That was what I was implying, looks like they recruited the right type of player. No issue with early recruiting, but it does seem to be getting a bit out of hand. Maybe recruiting proven Juniors and Seniors is going to come back into vogue.

when do the 2016 2017 hires get announced

Binghamton can be up there in the America East as you can see anything can happen. They need a coach that not only knows his Xs and Os but someone who they can look up to and respect both on and off the field. When the team wants to win for each other AND the coach magic can happen. That wasn't the case previously.

The only bad thing that will happen to them is Princeton and a few others will be looking for a coach within the next few weeks. A few current coaches will jump at these but what is the pecking order

How secure is stony brook coach four straight years no NCAA tournament especially this year, Team full of seniors.

Great point. America East is in disarray right now. Vermont coach stepped down, Binghamton coach fired and Stony Brook coach just isnt getting the job done. Albany and Hartford seem to be in good shape as far as coaching and young talent.

Maybe JS can take another job!

stick to chicks

Would love nothing more than to see Nagle get the ax from Stony Brook. Can't win an AE Playoff game with "his" senior class and the the guy wouldn't know a in game adjustment if it smacked him in the face. Sad part is they didn't interview anyone else when he got the job.

Can't see how Nagle keeps his job with all those seniors graduating it's a perfect time to start fresh. Far less returning talent than he had this year and with the poor schedule he plays it's embarrassing. Same for Hofstra How long are these leashes

Has no clue about mens game. Don't even try to bring up pro's. Surrounds himself with asst who know the game more than him.

Back before being head coach in pro he was D coach of Liizards sadly enough I was a practice squad player lolol and he definitely knows his stuff but Def more of a defensive minded men's coach. But why would he leave his gig now Makes no sense at all has it going really well and supposedly has zero interest. The larger question is the terrible job the current men's coach is doing there. Thought this was the year to make the NCAAs the same can be said about Hofstra, how can Marquette be doing what they are doing and not a Hofstra or Stoby Brook or even St Johns. I understand the Marylands and syracuses but schools like Marquette etc. would a Matt Danowski be interested in one of the Long Osland jobs ?

Think Matt Danowski would be a great get for either school could perhaps get some LIers to stay home

Let's all wave good bye to UVA, Duke, Hop and very shortly UNC. You heard it here, earlier in the year. You had folks saying "they'll all be in the final four". Truth be told, Hop didn't even belong in the tournament, they are simply a .500 lacrosse team. The biggest offenders of recruiting holdbacks and double holds as well as 14 year olds are all on the tournament scrap heap. UNC with all it's "top" recruits (not) could barley get by a team that's only been around for 4 years. Don't know for sure, but I'm sure MU didn't have any Inside Lacrosse ranked or Ty X ranked kids on the team. Yet somehow they nearly knocked off a team loaded with kids who were committed to UNC before MU even had a D1 program!!! A total and utter affirmation of the ill's of ER recruiting and Holdbacks. These kids are not panning out for the most part, true some are, but most aren't. The best 8th graders are not the best college players, now a fact. Kids who excel at playing down one two to years cannot compete at the next level. Proven fact. Not sure why these coaches continue to recruit from this pool, its just not working out for the most part. Quite frankly, I'm loving it. Only wish MU got rid of UNC, pretty sure that happens next week. It's great for the sport! Go, Brown, Loyola, Towson and Yale!

Although you make some good points, again I do not believe ER is the root cause of these programs not doing well. In the case of the Hop, they were missing 5 of their top midfielders due to injuries and one suspension. If they are not in the mix next season I will concede to you that their early recruits did not work out. As for UNC, coaching is clearly the problem there. They have plenty of talent and always have and they consistently underachieve. Marquette's coaching staff did an amazing job and they should be commended and I think their program is a prime example of the parity that exists in the sport. In the case of UVA, coaching is DEFINITELY their problem, as evidenced by the AD's comments recently. Starsia's days are clearly numbered. UVAs roster is filled with talent, no reason they should be missing the tournament or losing ACC games as they are. Brown and Yale are experiencing a resurgence this season which is great for the sport. Loyola and Towson have always been solid programs so no surprise there. I think it remains to be seen what effect if any ER has had on the sport, I personally think it has more to do with parity and coaching.

I am looking forward to seeing either Brown or Yale on TV in the second half of a tight Final Four game where Quint chimes in "here's where you start to see the fatigue of an Ivy competing against a scholarship program with all the athletes that Hopkins has"...then the part where he realizes he's not calling a Hopkins game.

Look on the bright side Jays fans, this is literally a two week head start on getting 2020s committed!

You think the teams the ER aren't left? Just silly.

Can the three extra blank pages on this thread get removed?

The #1 team in the country, Maryland, will most likely be in the final four again and they are one of the most notorious early recruiters as are the Cuse who tends to be there every year.

Maryland will lose if they play Cuse. Maryland can't beat a dynamic offensive team when it counts. Cuse is a bad example to hold out as an ER bandit. They take 20+ kids a year and redshirt most of them, then most of those quit from year one to two. Cuse is the program you sign up for to tryout while calling yourself a commit, and at $60K a year tuition the university won't mind that at all. Cuse is good because the talent pool in the Rochester/Albany corridor is fantastic, lots of LI kids grew up fans, and most importantly they have access to Six Nations kids. The ER carnival wagon for the rest of their roster fills out their practice squad.

Silly??? The only ER left is MD, they haven't won anything in decades... 3 or 4 of their top players are transfers. Most all of the other teams have been much later recruiters until very recently.

Silly.

And another early recruiter in Denver out!!!

Wow....its like the Hunger Games in here. Looks like you want every head coach fired. You do realize, only one coach wins in the end!
Lose a game = Lose your job. Glad you are all so perfect at what you do and would never have to worry about being fired.

Don't worry, MD goes back on the scrap heap next week. Cuse takes care of business and Tillman chokes again. BTW Cuse just started recruiting early this year. What do Brown, Towson, Loyola, Navy all have in common, much later recruiters. Silly isn't it?
Next week MD and UNC join the others who got all those "top" recruits... Too funny. I love how Hop just gets blown out and the talking heads try to blame it on injuries... They should be killing Brown with their 3rd stringers. They were all "top recruits" lol.

Silly

Dom is out. U Va not renewing his contract.

Tool

Source? Confirmation?

That's not a shocker. They need to move in different direction.

alumni were notified.

VAF donors getting head's up phone calls too. This is it.

So much for that try a 3 year extension!!!

Yes smart move by UVA 22 TRIPS TO TOURNEY 4 National Championships in 26 years. Plenty of coaches out there with those credentials Dime a dozen.

Not to mention what he does for those kids off the field.

Yes UVA toss him to the curb Tar and feather him

WOW!!!!!

From

Virginia.247sports.com

Virginia has reportedly reversed course regarding lacrosse head coach Dom Starsia.
On Tuesday, Inside Lacrosse reported that the Hall of Fame coach�s contract would not be renewed for 2017.
On Friday, Ty Xanders reported that UVa had reversed field and offered Starsia a new three-year deal.
Xanders also confirmed that Inside Lacrosse�s report about not renewing the deal was accurate.
Inside Lacrosse has also reported the new deal and added that it�s unclear whether Starsia will accept the new deal.

Umm you probably feel a little silly now? 2 of the most notorious ER schools back to the final four. So your argument is null, sorry

Just curious, to the guy who started the ER rant, which schools did you hope your kid would get recruited by only to be told they had no spot?, (which is really coach speak for we have no interest).

Also pretty funny UNC and Maryland recruit early Also still playing so be consistent making an argument

[quote=Anonymous]Just curious, to the guy who started the ER rant, which schools did you hope your kid would get recruited by only to be told they had no spot?, (which is really coach speak for we have no interest). [/quote

How about this comment coming from a parent with 3 kids in the game, including one in college now: ER is bad for the youth sport. Middle school kids should not have this shadow over them and it is killing the enjoyment in the kids' game. My sense is a lot of early recruits would also be later recruits, so who are the losers if this whole thing is pushed back? I think comments like yours dance around the main issue. This is bad for the sport.

I'm a different guy and I don't have any kids yet.

But I still think ER is destroying the game, especially at the youth level.

2014 was the first very early recruiting year. Those kids are sophomores right now. We will not truly see the results of ER for another couple of years. The teams that are in the final four are led by seniors and juniors who were not early recruits .

I am not a fan of ER and my kid is an ER. We committed too early and his academics turned out to be better than expected and interests changed. Spots are now filled and he is stuck with his original choice.

If he is stuck as you describe it, that tells me his grades got better but his lacrosse didn't. If another coach/team needed a kid like yours he would find a way to get you. There is always a spot, no matter what they tell you. But those coaches don't have the need so you can stick with your deal or roll the dice with the place he wants and take a chance as an invited walk on. If the deal is too good to walk away from and you don't have to pay, you and your boy still won in the ER game.

Sorry to say but early recruiting has been going on forever it is the early reporting and announcing it to the world that's relatively new. This is due to social media and the expanded coverage lacrosse is being exposed to.

Although I agree that ER is hurting the game, the argument that ER is hurting the big programs is just silly. Maryland is most likely going to win the National championship and they are one of the most active ER schools out there. UNC as well and they are in the final four. Brown and Loyola are in the ER game now as well although not to the extent the other schools are. I also agree that the ER practice has been going on for a long time but with the explosion of the sport and social media, everything is out in the open now.

ER has not been going on for many years the way I define it. 10-15 years ago it was not unusual for a SELECT FEW kids to get the attention of college coaches. These coaches would monitor those players and incubate a recruiting relationship. Some players like Connor Gill and Danny Glading were known to coaches as ninth graders. However, this doesn't meet any rational definition for early recruiting as we see it now where kids go through an expedited review in a short time window and are then under duress to quickly decide or the spots evaporate. Sorry, I don't buy the arguments that many top programs can always make space later...only a few programs have the Title IX latitude to blow out a roster to 50, 60, 70... If a kid wants to take a year or two to decide as a ninth grader, his opportunity to go to a top program will foreclose. The coaches who recruit early know this and leverage it over the kids and families. Ten years ago the most aggressive representations being made to some select 9th graders -- fewer than 10 kids total in each class -- was "you are a player we intend to offer when you are a junior". Nothing more formal than that. Is it a promise or a pledge? Yes, as taken literally. But it wasn't like this where 200 kids who have a good enough talent level relative to other middle schoolers are all being courted and secured.

Maryland being an ER success is better story than fact. Yes, Maryland commits many 9th graders. But Maryland also has some more Title IX room and the program has a history of kids transferring out or quitting after their first year. Further, many of Maryland's top recent year players have been incoming transfers as well. If there is a game Maryland plays best, it is the high volume transfer market and not the early recruiting market.

UNC -- credit where due. They are talented and good this year. That written, is the recent track record of Hopkins, UVA anything but abysmal in recent years? Even Duke's lustre is fading fast in the recent couple years. Duke certainly recruits and commits very young kids, the same players and nearly the same timing as rivals in the recent few years. The only difference to stipulate is Duke holds back the public announcements of commits and lies when they deny doing it. Everyone knows this...I have to wonder why Dino even bothers to attempt to disguise it.

Not sure if he still does it but I recall Tambroni saying he'd always keep a slot or two available for a late bloomer. This was after he was able to wrestle Rob Panell way from Quinippiac. Rob's original commitment, when he was still just a decent player off LI, not the player he'd developed into.

After watching, and hearing about, Pat Spencer the past few weekends I don't see why all coaches don't save a spot for late bloomers. Spencer, according to the broadcasters, as a late bloomer made his final decision between Loyola, Villanova and Fairfield. No disrespect to those three but I would imagine there are a bunch of other schools that would find a place on their rosters for him now.

I was the original wise guy poster who questioned the ER ranger. For what it's worth I was stirring the pot, I agree ER has gotten entirely out of hand. It isn't going to be rolled back by coaches, but college presidents should be saying we will not commit our university until admissions gets what they need. Not a "you get these grades and you're good", a firm "I can't commit until I am told you're through admissions". It won't stop it but it may slow it down, and roll it back a year or so.

In this case the grades are good enough for Ivy League athletic supported admission but the risk is that Your not guaranteed Ivy admission until you actually know you have it in hand. the other lacrosse related options are not as good academically as the present. So that is why I say stuck. I would have much preferred this was all going to happen after junior year. We could have made more informed decision. Maybe still would have done the same thing.

Official he is not returning leaving amicably. Not 100% sure if he will aide in the search for the next HC.

Can someone delete the extra pages at the end of this?

How far up their rump are their heads over at UVA? Hired, fired, extended, fired again?

Can someone say Princeton??? Any word on who's going to UVA?

Every coach in the country will be looking to move. But this brings up another point about early recruiting. Every kid that committed early now has to hold his breathe and hope the new coach likes what he sees or all bets are off. The new coach does not have to honor any hand shake deals.

You are selective in your argument. UNC has struggled up until this year in terms of progressing in the NCAA tournament. What about UVA, Ohio State, Michigan? All ER schools.

the actual ER recruits will not start showing up until next year. So we will know the answer to ER in about 3 years.

This is an accurate statement.

Then I guess I have a different definition of ER than you.

Many of us want things to go back to the way they should be, when students decided on a college choice in the fall (and sometimes even spring) of their senior years, after doing official visits at the start of the school year. Recruiting pressure didn't ramp up until sophomore and junior years (compared to 7th/8th grade today).

Honestly it sucks for the kid who is 15 and has a real good stick great iq but hasn't hit that maturity physically. My son is one of those. Can score from left side, quick around the cage but is 5'4" 125 and has a lot more growth left in him. He won't get a look at all at that size. Then come 2 yrs when he reaches hopefully full potential growth it will be too late. These coaches are looking for the physically matured kid right now.

If he is a really good player, he will be discovered. But by the middle of his sophomore year about 50% of the D1 slots will be taken.

Yes I agree but I think at 2019 more then that will be taken up. He wants a patriot league school so hopefully that will help. But I told him don't expect anything this summer. Many kids he knows on Long Island are verbally committed or about to and it's hard for a 15yr old to wrap their head around that. He knows when he grows it will be different.

Trevor baptiste commited late to a D3 school then switched to Denver, and last year was the top fogo as a freshman on the national championship team. Yes there's early recruits but some kids just get better later. My son verbaled in September of his senior year to a D1 school. Has played in every game but 2 for the last 2 years. A school with great academics. Sometimes teams don't know their needs till a bit later. Hang in there but my advice is don't chase the white ball. Academics and fit should be a priority.

UNC's struggles had everything to do with coaching and less to do with recruiting. Breschi has had amazing talent there and just hasnt been able to put that together. I think the same applies to UVA, if you look at their recruiting classes every year they are among the top rated classes in college lax. Its no coincidence that Starsia got the boot. Michigan is a new program so we really cant gauge what they are, and IMO their coach is a gigantic tool that has no clue what hes doing. Lastly Ohio State just recently got into the ER game and I think for them its more of a case of bad recruiting rather than ER.

You can't be serious??? With all that "talent" UNC, UVA, JHU, and others should be able to beat teams like MU by 10 with their 3 line. Do you really think Coaching has that much to do with it? These "talent rich" programs should be able to win with such amazing athletes... See Miami Heat, Labron leaves, no more Championships. Guess it was the Coach that made them win? Your argument is so silly... It's time to face facts. I've played sports all my life, my kids have too. You cannot Coach an average kid into a super athlete. It rarely if ever works. Point is, if teams like UNC and UVA are getting such superior recruits, they should be able to win easily with such an overwhelmingly lopsided advantage. So much of todays game is winning individual match ups. With that said, those superior athletes should be winning all the time!! No? Regardless of who's Coaching. The reality is, those recruits just aren't panning out, and the schools that have traditionally waited are doing very well. Brown and Loyola are perfect examples. I know both their super attacks where not recruited early!!! I'm also pretty sure the kid from Brown was recruited as a midfielder... Buckle in, very good chance it's a Loyola Brown final. Even if it's not, with all that "talent", according to you, these two teams shouldn't even be in the final four.

Wake up genius--

all the teams in the final four recruit early. get off your couch and go play catch with your son.

Whats silly is you comparing Professional basketball to college lacrosse. Lebron James is a freak of nature and a once in a generation type athlete. There is no parallel to him in college lacrosse. The closest we have seen to that is Lyle Thompson and it was coaching that cost him a chance at a national title. Anyone that was at the Notre Dame-Albany quarterfinal at Hofstra a few years ago will tell you that Albany coach completely screwed that game up and cost Albany that win. Lacrosse is not the type of sport where individual matchups can routinely overcome scheme and planning. Also I think you are totally discounting the fact that the talent pool has greatly expanded and parity in this sport is here to stay. Marquette did an amazing job of taking a bunch of good players and making them very competitive in a short amount of time. So really youre missing the whole point, a good coach can take a team of average to good players and turn them into something special, IE Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots. Breschi at UNC last year had arguably one of the best attack units the sport has ever seen and he failed to capitalize on it. JHU this season lost their 6 top middies and still made the tournament. If you say youve played sports your whole life and you dont know the value of coaching, then Im sorry but you have no clue what youre talking about.

I think I've struck a nerve. You have got to be Coach. You say you can't bring in professional sports analogies and then u bring up the Patriots...
You're other analogy is to say Lyle was freak athlete? If you any thing about lacrosse you would know he changed the way attack was played. Go watch his dodges. Very slow, methodical, used stick skills, unconventional shooting angles and leverage to make more superior athletes look silly. I assure you if you looked at his athletic measurables, I'm certain they are average in relation to most D1 attacks. Yet his results were off the charts.
Point is the best players are all not at UNC, UVA, and JHU. Btw Hop making the the tourn was absolute gift. Brown quickly showed that by blowing their doors off. Again if JHU is getting the top player every year the should make the final four with the third line. Point is they aren't getting the best. They're getting the best 16 yo HS freshman.

Lol well said sir! 16 yr old freshman in high school and 21 yr old freshman in college for these schools. Really not working to good.

I think we are losing track of the argument here. Your assertion that the schools that ER have not been successful just simply doesnt have any merit, but that is a completely separate argument than whether or not these schools are getting all the best kids. Again the talent pool is so vast and expanded now, youre starting to see the parity youre seeing. The statement that JHU should win with their 3rd line is asinine and they deserved to be in the tourney and yes they did get their doors blown in by Brown. Brown is a perfect example of superior coaching BTW. Lars Tiffany took some very talented players and implemented a system that fit their skillsets the best and hes run with it all year. This is direct contrast to Breschi and Starsia. Breschi and Starsia have had the talent, but havent figured out how to implement a style that fits those kids the best. Oh and Lyle Thompson is a sick athlete, he can dunk a basketball and runs like a deer plus all the attributes you mentioned. I dont know what your stake in this is, but I can tell you my son was not an ER, and I dont necessarily agree with the practice but I dont think we can say with any degree of certainty what effect if any it has had at the college level.

I think we are losing track of the argument here. Your assertion that the schools that ER have not been successful just simply doesnt have any merit, but that is a completely separate argument than whether or not these schools are getting all the best kids. Again the talent pool is so vast and expanded now, youre starting to see the parity youre seeing. The statement that JHU should win with their 3rd line is asinine and they deserved to be in the tourney and yes they did get their doors blown in by Brown. Brown is a perfect example of superior coaching BTW. Lars Tiffany took some very talented players and implemented a system that fit their skillsets the best and hes run with it all year. This is direct contrast to Breschi and Starsia. Breschi and Starsia have had the talent, but havent figured out how to implement a style that fits those kids the best. Oh and Lyle Thompson is a sick athlete, he can dunk a basketball and runs like a deer plus all the attributes you mentioned. I dont know what your stake in this is, but I can tell you my son was not an ER, and I dont necessarily agree with the practice but I dont think we can say with any degree of certainty what effect if any it has had at the college level

The point is, if you allow yourself to see it is: These school do not have the talent they thought they had. Plain and simple.
The reason the best College Basketball teams are consistently at the top is because they continue to get the BEST kids. You could resurrect John Wooden, have him Coach at NYU, guess what they're NEVER winning a National Championship. Without the best players, all the Coaching in the world won't matter.
In Lacrosse we ARE definitely seeing the effects of ER, combined with the recruitment of holdbacks and double holdbacks. Many of these holdback ARE the early recruits. A great majority have been going to 4 or 5 schools for the last 4 or 5 years. It is not paying off. Schools that waited a bit longer, have kids that are just as good if not better than those ER kids. Lastly, from what I see, Brown has a great fogo that gets the ball to an insane attack line. Molloy dodges from behind. He either blows by his man or the double and scores, if that doesn't work he feeds. How in the world did Tiffany ever come up with that ground breaking system??? If Molloy can't play today or plays and isn't 100%, and Brown still wins, I'll tip my cap to Tiffany.

As for Brown, youre only seeing part of what they do. Everything they do is uptempo and fast. Their poles stay on the field and play offense and rarely do you see them settle into a 6 v 6 offense. Larken Kemp their LSM was just voted an AA, there is no way that kid is an AA in the ACC. Tiffany put that kid in the perfect system for him to succeed. Yes the FOGO is very good and gets them possessions, but again without the system they play they would settle into a 6v6 offense and play just like everyone else. They did beat Navy without Molloy and Navy is a pretty dam good defensive team. Nobody said what Tiffany is doing is groundbreaking, he is just simply putting his kids in the best positions for them to be successful which is what a good coach does.

How can you see the game online?

the game is on now watch Espn or Espn 2

wow, a ten goal lead with 6mins left in the 1st half. Nor sure if the shot clock means anything. Almost counter sportsman like. Empty the bench and live for Monday!

Sub now save the legs, ...it is like Africa hot!

WatchESPN app on your iPhone or Roku. It's also on ESPN 2. Optimum ch35.

Oh boy!! Loyola mounting a comeback.......

those 2 horrible calls in the 1st qtr are coming back to bite Loyola.

#7 has played well but takes to many plays off. at 3:30 left in the game you don't loaf around on the ride. great game to tell young attack players to watch. NEVER TAKE A PLAY OFF!!!!

fun game to watch if you were a UNC fan.

Did the officials want Maryland to win? Good Lord what a horrendous job on a National stage!!!!!
Brown nearly pulled it off despite the officials.

That trip couldn't be more obvious, and ref was looking right at it! Stopped a fast break. Just awful

There was one on brown later on in the game though that wasn't called. Browns 24 turnovers certainly didn't help at all

So Maryland-UNC final....... Im not sure but Ive heard that both of those schools early recruit. Crazy that they are both in the final, who saw that coming?

Why not jump on the bandwagon ... The ER don't even play a role in these teams yet.

Ok so how you feeling about this statement right about now? Too funny how you have absolutely no clue of what your talking about. Those "top recruits" turned out to be pretty dam good after all........It ok though D3 has some really competitive lax too....

Really?? MD should be blowing Brown out with all those "top recruits" Did you notice the best player in the country (recruited as a jr) dropped two on MD with a broken foot... If that kid was 100%, MD would be toast. Throw in an awful call or two and it's another Tillman choke job. I'll tip my hat to UNC, they're on a roll. First one since 1993...

Folks, whether you like it or not, brown has been in the er game as well. all ivy recruit early. pull your head out of the sand and pay attention...

You think the teams the ER aren't left? Just silly. [/quote]

Silly??? The only ER left is MD, they haven't won anything in decades... 3 or 4 of their top players are transfers. Most all of the other teams have been much later recruiters until very recently. [/quote]

Silly. [/quote]

Don't worry, MD goes back on the scrap heap next week. Cuse takes care of business and Tillman chokes again. BTW Cuse just started recruiting early this year. What do Brown, Towson, Loyola, Navy all have in common, much later recruiters. Silly isn't it?
Next week MD and UNC join the others who got all those "top" recruits... Too funny. I love how Hop just gets blown out and the talking heads try to blame it on injuries... They should be killing Brown with their 3rd stringers. They were all "top recruits" lol. [/quote]

Ok so how you feeling about this statement right about now? Too funny how you have absolutely no clue of what your talking about. Those "top recruits" turned out to be pretty dam good after all........It ok though D3 has some really competitive lax too.... [/quote]

Really?? MD should be blowing Brown out with all those "top recruits" Did you notice the best player in the country (recruited as a jr) dropped two on MD with a broken foot... If that kid was 100%, MD would be toast. Throw in an awful call or two and it's another Tillman choke job. I'll tip my hat to UNC, they're on a roll. First one since 1993... [/quote]

35 Under Armour All Americans playing in the final today. Not a coincidence these teams are in the finals. Sorry but those are the facts.

I have said before that I am one of the few adult/parents that has had the privilege to actually play lax back in the 80's - 90's on Long Island, so to the rest of you are you also as glad as I am to see both the men and woman's Maryland lacrosse teams, all decked out in that atrocious flag, drag there sticks off the fields in defeat? Does that make me bad?

What a game!
North Carolina over Maryland in overtime.
UNC is the 2016 D1 National Champions.

Two ER teams in championship of one of the best games in a long time

Great game, no doubt. Let's not forget, both teams easily could have been home today.... UMD barely get's by Brown, with a hobbled superstar playing on a broken foot. UNC nearly went home at MU. The takeaway here is any team in the top 20 can win on any given day. As #14 beats #1. Nonetheless, a fantastic game today.

Considering that are young adults that bust their [lacrosse] on the field and in the classroom for nothing but the joy of playing the game....yes, you are an [lacrosse].

If you were playing college lax back in the 80's on LI it explains a lot.
How many LI kids were in the championship game ????

So why so happy because it is Maryland ? Did they turn you down back in the 80's

ACC BACK ON TOP

seems like there were a decent amount of LI kids. Starting FOGO for Maryland, Starting goalie for UNC, starting close D for Maryland, starting LSM for Maryland and Im sure I missed a few.

Another Tillman Choke! Word is, guy is not very loyal, will cut your knees out from beneath you in a second. Karma, it can be tough...

Whoever made comments about brown and lars etc has no clue what they are talking about. Yes they lost for whatever the reason but give respect to lars and crew. The team was absolutely stacked with 9 all americans, 3 who were first team. Can play with anyone and yes they should have won it all.

Before we give Lars a ton of credit don't forget that the Brown offense came from a Division 3 guy - the 25 year old assistant brought that offense with him from Tufts. D3 top 10 teams are legit...

The Jumbo's play FAST...

Tufts is a major powerhouse and amazing school.

Could Tufts be like JHU and go D1 in lax? Certainly could go MAAC or Patriot League for sure.